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Old 02-24-2014, 10:06 PM   #11
Kid Charlemagne
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Justin Raimondo of Antiwar.com weighs in on the subject:

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2.../coup-in-kiev/
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:52 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Kid Charlemagne View Post
Justin Raimondo of Antiwar.com weighs in on the subject:

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2.../coup-in-kiev/
I actually don't know anywhere declaring it a triumph of democracy, but something that was on the fast track to a revolution after escalating demonstrations against it. Much like the situation in Egypt a few years ago, a situation I was fortunate to see in between the fall of Mubarak and the election of the Muslim Brotherhood, it's hard to call anybody a "good guy".

Rarely are revolutions morally pure. Syria is a great example...you've got a radical group fighting a dictatorship. To me, it's basically shuffling the deck chairs. This is why I hate people romanticizing the American and French Revolutions. The Founding Fathers aren't gods or purely driven by the love of the constitutional statements. The were driven by as much selfish desire as the parties in Ukraine and Syria today. The French Revolution wasn't pretty or effective and partly existed because the French decided to flip a giant middle finger to England in the American Revolution. WWII was more teeth gritting teamwork than anything else and is a really terrifying moment in history - had Hitler been more sane about his plans, it's very possible he and Germany could have conquered the entirety of Europe west of the USSR in his lifetime.

Dividing the country may work, but it can easily go the other way as well. We have the example of Sudan/South Sudan, where the entire new nation fell into disarray, then civil war as soon as it was made a country, or Israel, who instantly had every nation in the area declare war on it as soon as it was formed.

This is the sort of stuff that requires hard, long looks to solve. Peace is very much possible and I always hope it will be a possibility here, but I suspect it'll be a much more nuanced and difficult answer to seek than what Mr. Raimondo suggests. It's good to see someone refute claims put forward (especially those of Rice and those of the media quickly claiming what was looted from the palace) though.
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Old 02-26-2014, 11:34 PM   #13
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Sounds like Russian backed militia have taken over part of Crimea.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle17110382/

...EDIT And they've now seized Crimea's parliament.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...iament-reports

EDIT 2 - Sounds like Russian soldiers have landed in Crimea.

EDIT 3 - ~16,000 Russian troops have officially crossed into the Crimea region.
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Old 03-02-2014, 06:30 PM   #14
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Thought since this is a full out invasion at this point, I'd make a new post:

Here's a current list of known troop movements in the Crimea region
Spoiler: show
]
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Old 03-02-2014, 06:50 PM   #15
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This is getting really bad. The new Ukrainian president says he's preparing the nations military for war against Russia if they don't leave now.

Sadly the only way I see out of this mess is if Ukraine gets split into two countries.
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Old 03-02-2014, 07:09 PM   #16
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This is getting really bad. The new Ukrainian president says he's preparing the nations military for war against Russia if they don't leave now.
Ukraine's chain of command is still a mess. I can't see them organizing for a while. By the time they organize, I suspect Russia will have secured what it wants. I mean, they just fired their naval chief for refusing to fight the Russian Federation.
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Old 03-02-2014, 08:11 PM   #17
Kid Charlemagne
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A pair of good articles in Counterpunch:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/02/...best-plan-yet/

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/02/...e-imperialism/
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Old 03-04-2014, 02:21 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa's_Lover View Post
This is getting really bad. The new Ukrainian president says he's preparing the nations military for war against Russia if they don't leave now.
Quite the news. I have a Ukrainian friend in Kiev. They moved to London to escape the violence. Luckily, his dad is from the UK and he has dual-citizenship. I hope the best for Ukraine & hope that they can settle this conflict~

Last edited by YuiKonata; 03-04-2014 at 02:21 AM. Reason: oops said friends~
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Old 03-04-2014, 02:41 AM   #19
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Russia let go an ultimatum to Ukraine's navy in Crimea to surrender or be boarded. Some soldiers in the area seem intent on not surrendering though.

The EU is planning action while Obama/Harper are just making noise and pretending they matter/would actually follow through with sanctions further than small economic sanctions (Russia has the GDP of Italy for god's sake) and G8 kicking. Like Russia cared about either.
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Old 03-04-2014, 03:08 AM   #20
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For once Kirant I agree. Obama is all bluster and no bite. Well except that one time he had Seal Team 6 but a bullet in Osama's brain. Pretty much the only good decision he ever made. That said though Obama isn't going to do much if all out war starts between these two.

You know I wouldn't be surprised if this was all planned by Russia to "conveniently" get some land back after the USSR fell. They slip in some government rouseres to start up violent protests after the Ukrainian President starts to talk with Putin; when the Ukrainian President gets ousted and asks Russia for help, It gives them a good excuse to invade.

Now this is just my 2 cents. This could all just be a several bad steps that led us here.
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