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Old 08-31-2017, 12:21 AM   #221
Kid Charlemagne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
KC once again your sarcasm missed the mark. I do remember that, and the people shouting for his birth certificate. what's your point? Are you trying to say this was bogus? im not hating on it, i remember katrina and place more of the blame on the mayor of New Orleans than Obama, is there an analogy right now we missed?
THE POINT IS THAT OBAMA WAS NOT THE PRESIDENT OF THE USA WHEN HURRICANE KATRINA STRUCK THE USA.

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Old 09-03-2017, 08:08 AM   #222
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So...North Korea claims it has Hydrogen Bomb capabilities. As of 2 hours ago, it caused a 6.3 magnitude earthquake, which lends credence to the claim. The last test they conducted was on September 2016, which resulted in a 5.3 magnitude earthquake. To produce a 10x stronger earthquake, they'd need 30x the energy.

Assuming that everything North Korea has claimed is on the level (when is it ever?), this is quite serious. Coming days after a missile flyover over Japan, this is a massive acceleration in North Korea's actions and I wouldn't be shocked if severe action on the international stage occurs because of it (including a complete isolation of North Korea or military action, should things get serious enough).

We're falling ever closer to the question "Where is the red line with North Korea?". When do we decide enough is enough?
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Old 09-05-2017, 11:14 PM   #223
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More American immigration news. Trump is overturning an act that Obama enacted called DACA. This allows illegals, when snuck into America, to let their kids turn into citizens. This is unconstitutional I agree. Its the same as when a 9 month pregnant woman jumps the border and gives birth on american soil, her child is a citizen. Some use this as an ability to let them stay. I for one am not against immigration as a whole but do believe that aliens need to become citizens legally. And that our immigration reform needs to be streamlined. waiting 20 years for paperwork is ridiculous. However people border jumping and using their kids as ammo to get citizenship should be illegalized. Its similar to where people will have kids for the sole purpose of getting more welfare money (although I find that grossly immoral in that case as most do, exploiting the loophole.) So KC, as a fellow American, whatcha think?

Regarding Korea, I'm ampin up for the fight. We got our sights on here in the US, ready to go to war. Our boats are already there. I doubt Kim Jong Un is stupid enough to fire a missile directly at America but let's wait and see. World War 3 the nuclear war starts real soon
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Old 09-06-2017, 12:25 AM   #224
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This allows illegals, when snuck into America, to let their kids turn into citizens. This is unconstitutional I agree. Its the same as when a 9 month pregnant woman jumps the border and gives birth on american soil, her child is a citizen.
Technically, no. It does not give path to citizenship. Nor do you get welfare or student aid.

Your date of deportation simply gets pushed back.

The only notable impacts in studies have been in the unemployment rate of DACA eligible individuals. There as an increased number of employment by 50 to 75 thousand.

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Regarding Korea, I'm ampin up for the fight.
Really, nobody should be excited for a fight. Maybe prepared is the right words, but if you're "amping", I'll let you be the first to storm the beach.

War is grotesque. I think we forget that sometimes since the last worldwide conflict is out of sight, out of mind in our daily lives.

But if we deplete the other options, then war it must be. And I think we're creeping to that point because of the words "ICBM" and "hydrogen explosion" in the same sentence.

Should North Korea use it any missiles actively as oppose to waving them around like a madman, I don't think there's any other choice.

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I doubt Kim Jong Un is stupid enough to fire a missile directly at America but let's wait and see.
I think his plan is to keep acting mad. His back is against a wall right now. What he wants is the money and food to start flowing back again so he can stay in power.

I like this quote from another forum:

Quote:
You anticipate a problem. You can't say "Do this or I'll nuke you." The response is obviously, "No you won't. The rest of the world would tear your ass a new one." North Korea is a little kid trying to bully a linebacker. But there's one simple trick they don't want you to know! Look crazy.

Now when the crazy kid at school tells you that he's going to fight you unless you give him your applesauce, maybe you figure it isn't worth your time to argue over it. If someone else said that, you'd figure your friends are joking, you'd figure the huge bully means it and could win, but the crazy kid... You don't really know. North Korea's threats and posturing are so much more effective if everyone thinks in the back of their head - you know, just maybe, they'd actually do it.
I think to some level, Trump's instability an erratic behaviour feeds Un as well. Normally, the Guam thing wouldn't have been a big story. In fact, South Korea treated it just like another day. So to use the analogy above, the crazy kid is threatening an easily provoked bully and we're not sure if they're going to punch each other yet.
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Old 09-06-2017, 02:35 AM   #225
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Paul Krugman weighs in.

The Very Bad Economics of Killing DACA
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Old 09-06-2017, 04:02 AM   #226
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Okay...so I finally had a chance to read into the details of DACA.

What really bothers me is that you're going to punish children for their parents' actions (which in many ways is line jumping over people who play the system fairly).

Many Republicans are not happy with the choice, saying along the lines of "we shouldn't, as Americans, hold children legally accountable for the sins of their parents".

The kids did nothing wrong. Their parents did. Give the kids who are, for all intents and purposes, naturalized USA citizens Green Cards.

An excellent example was brought to my attention - there is an individual on YouTube who was brought into the USA and was not deported because of DACA. He is currently paying 400,000 in taxes. And his reward? A one way ticket to Slovakia, a place he really doesn't know.

Does the USA really want to tamper with these effects?

Even worse, this has way too many questions.

- What do you do with many of them? A bunch were brought in at the age of 3 or 4. They are now near 18. Do you send them to a country where they have no roots because, oops, sorry but your parents didn't do you a solid.

- The current proposed "wind down" period is 24 months, but that's 800,000 people you need to move. That's a huge operation and is it even worth the cost?

I'm not going to argue that the legal immigration process shouldn't be used...but now that the door is open, maybe it's just better to let the program run its course. The limitations will mean that we'll see an end to the program soon enough.

- This is a 460 billion dollar projected loss in output over a decade. Why even foot that cost in your output? This is taking a punch just to say you're a man.

Why not just let it end on its own terms?
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:45 AM   #227
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Its the same arguement as welfare not being reformed.

A stupid bitch (not a smart girl, a stupid bitch) goes and hoes herself out. She ends up with 4 kids from 4 guys who skipped the country, are in jail, whatever. She gets a check from the government for each kid. More than enough, most of which she blows on herself. Its not the kid's fault their mom is stupid. However if you can have one kid and make 14,000$ a year (compare to a job where you might end up making 12,000$ a year) why the hell would you work? So people crank out kids just for a check. It cannot continue. Yeah its gonna suck, do you say its not the kids fault? I understand your sympathy but it never should have been constructed this way in the first place (I am an advocate for disability AND unemployment insurance but NOT welfare).
But if you let it continue this way, 1 woman has 4 kids, all with one stupid parent rasing them, and odds are all 4 of them are going to go out and make the same mistake, IE next generation has 16 kids coming from 4 undereducated parents. Eventually the welfare will devour the free market, turning the country into a socialist, then communist state.
Now kirant and KC you know this is an extreme example, and though it may hurt, it shouldn't have been done in the first place. Would you rather turn the future into one where we all suffer or one where some do but as a whole we do better and use that prosperity to feed back into education so the next breed doesnt make the same mistakes as their parents? Thats optimistic, congress repeats the same mistakes cause the new generations vote for the same failed ideas cause we are undereducated still.

I know theres a middle ground of course, but given the choice, id deport rather than condone in the future.

I have another example and its racist and you guys will hate it. Here we go:

American slavery started centuries ago and ended legally in 1865. These freed slaves are decendants of africans. They were freed and undereducated, many going to work as cotton pickers for low wages opposed to none. There was also the corruption and acceptance period (racism) that took years to go away.
There was the 'back to africa' movement. Granted it would send these people back to DISTANT relatives as their known ancestors were long gone. Some went, most did not. I personally feel that ECONOMICALLY and im not being racist here, but that America's mistake was not a forced shipping of freed slaves back to their ancestor's land. And an option to come back to america through the proper channels legally (forget for a minute the red tape and cost).

Yeah its 2am and im blitzed tired, kirant i gave you every loophole to pick at but I hope you understand the bulk of what Im getting at. DACA, welfare and slavery should never have existed in the first place. I realize if daca is ended, we will have a new batch of people who will bark about governmental entitlement akin to slave descendants, but people will always try and exploit things. in the long run, shipping daca people back will cost trillions less than spanning a new generation and doing this case by case if you look into the 'total' cost.

the reality is, no matter what you do, ALL children pay for the mistakes of their parents. children do not pay for the 'sins' of their parents, that's what baptism is for. Are they gonna get deported cause of their parents? if theyre under 18, of course. send their parents back, the kids gotta go with em. see "elian gonzales" - america botched that up pretty bad, well Janet Reno did.

and always remember. the ultimate decision is gonna be debated over money. always is.

im also exhausted and on my 13th day of straight work without a day off, my compassion will show up in the morning im simply arguing the opposite of you right now cause you love the debate and you already have a retalliation for all this anyway :P
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Old 09-14-2017, 05:36 AM   #228
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I personally don't buy the comparison as it's flawed to the core (the individuals on DACA are employed and actively seek employment based on the numbers shown), but let's go.

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Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
A stupid bitch (not a smart girl, a stupid bitch) goes and hoes herself out. She ends up with 4 kids from 4 guys who skipped the country, are in jail, whatever. She gets a check from the government for each kid. More than enough, most of which she blows on herself. Its not the kid's fault their mom is stupid.
If she blows it on herself solely, then it's a matter for Child Services. The Children should be brought into protective custody and she lose the cheques.

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However if you can have one kid and make 14,000$ a year (compare to a job where you might end up making 12,000$ a year) why the hell would you work?
Children are damn expensive. The numbers above only way this works economically is if you can raise a child on <$2000/year.

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Yeah its gonna suck, do you say its not the kids fault?
Another invalid comparison as the children who are in the above can be put into foster care. The children can be, to go by the terms in my last post, "spared" from the sins even if we punish a parent who seeks children purely for economic benefit (and give the children unsatisfactory living situations).

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I understand your sympathy but it never should have been constructed this way in the first place (I am an advocate for disability AND unemployment insurance but NOT welfare).
While I think we can debate whether the deferral should have existed in the first place is a valid discussion, that's not what we're deciding based on the events with DACA.

The debate is whether the nation of the USA is better served ending the program now or letting it burn itself out over the next stretch of time (as the conditions of the act mean that there will no new applications soon).

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and though it may hurt, it shouldn't have been done in the first place.
Again, not the debate.

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Granted it would send these people back to DISTANT relatives as their known ancestors were long gone.
Please provide a link on the Back to Africa movement. The only thing I can find about it was a movement within the African American community to move back to Africa. It was a popular movement within the community because it was grassroots originating by the community.

---

Post is a bit short. On the road, so I just tried to hit the key points.
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Old 09-14-2017, 05:37 AM   #229
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For some reason, the server I'm using doesn't let me edit posts.

Please read "Children are damn expensive. The numbers above only way this works economically is if you can raise a child on <$2000/year."

As

"Children are damn expensive. The numbers above only way this works economically is if you can raise a child on <$2000/year (plus economic benefit)"

Edit - Huh. Edit works this time.

Reports are that Trump opted to work with Democrats on the DACA program.

If the reports are true, the "dreamers" (the illegal immigrant children filing for deferred action in DACA) will be protected. Additionally, while border security will be increased at the USA/Mexico border, no border wall will be proposed.
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