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Old 12-04-2015, 08:24 AM   #31
kirant
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As for motivation, I think the way the current evidence is that it points to radicalization.
One wonders if it's a mix of that and some poor temper.

I think all signs point to a larger event, one your government at that time (publicly) claims they didn't know about as he wasn't on many (again, publicly listed) watch list (I've heard reports of one or two, but still pretty much under the radar). 12 pipe bombs, rounds upon rounds of ammunition. But they opted to not use any of it. Tactically and strategically pointless to have some sort of bomb building hobby and not use it on a one way mission. He was seen at the company beforehand and I wonder if something set him off and caused him to start the plan early and forgo whatever advantage they may have for catharsis.

What interests too is the involvement of his wife. Most of these attacks are lone wolf...the fact that there are two is highly unusual and makes it a unique case.
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Old 12-04-2015, 08:45 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/04/us/san-bernardino-shooting/index.html
“At this point we believe they were more self-radicalized and inspired by the group than actually told to do the shooting,” one of the officials said.
There were also reports on how he got into an argument with a Jewish coworker about how Islam a weeks prior. I would definitely say the main cause of this tragedy was religious extremism and radicalization, and I would be lying if I said I didn't feel his wife was a big part of it.
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Old 12-04-2015, 09:18 PM   #33
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The presence of the woman puzzles me if the motive is jihadism.

The way jihadis treat women, a woman fighting for jihadism is like a black man fighting for the Confederacy, or a Jew fighting for Nazi Germany.
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Old 12-05-2015, 12:59 AM   #34
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There were also reports on how he got into an argument with a Jewish coworker about how Islam a weeks prior. I would definitely say the main cause of this tragedy was religious extremism and radicalization, and I would be lying if I said I didn't feel his wife was a big part of it.
I think self-radicalization is certainly part of it...and that I think speaks to a greater issue at large that people don't feel at home. It was mentioned in the Chatbox to Thane when we saw Paris, but a big reason Paris gets so many attacks is because second (and later) generation Muslims groups get ostracized by the community. They by all means are French. They were born in France, speak French, and call themselves French citizens. But some aren't treated as French and it gives some an identity crisis. Paris has a bit of a problem here where there's even some problems if you speak Quebecois French in Paris.

I would fear that such an issue sparked this. It's current ISIS' goal to find these people and offer them a home in Militant Islamist culture. That's where one battle must be fought IMO: reintegrate these lost individuals and, instead of fearing the culture, welcome them.

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The presence of the woman puzzles me if the motive is jihadism.

The way jihadis treat women, a woman fighting for jihadism is like a black man fighting for the Confederacy, or a Jew fighting for Nazi Germany.
See the above. Some actually like the idea of being war-brides over the alternative.

Also...


WTF America.
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Old 12-05-2015, 06:07 AM   #35
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DROP. THE. BOMB. You terrorists are all damn cowards!!!
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Old 12-05-2015, 06:59 AM   #36
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DROP. THE. BOMB. You terrorists are all damn cowards!!!
Again, one of them is a US citizen. The only way this works is if you "drop. the. bomb." on all Americans. Which, as a Canadian, I would at least survive...so I've got no horse in that race. Just be aware of the exact solution you suggest.
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Old 12-05-2015, 04:48 PM   #37
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DROP. THE. BOMB. You terrorists are all damn cowards!!!
"You"? I doubt any terrorists read this forum.

The world might be a better place if they did, though--it's hard to hold a weapon when you're fapping to yuri pix. xD

*****************

More seriously--as Kirant said, at least one of these particular terrorists was home-grown.

Plus, every time we strike terrorists in the Middle East or wherever--and kill innocent bystanders in the process--we create more angry radicals than we kill. Moral issues aside, the "bombs away" strategy simply does not work.

The smart thing to do would be just to walk away and quit whacking that hornets' nest, but our master, Big Business, won't allow that, because it wants to own everything--and everyone--on the planet, including the Middle East. (Big Business is Palpatine; Uncle Sam is merely Darth Vader.)

Plus, Israel and Saudi Arabia want us there, and they can buy "our" politicians.
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Old 12-07-2015, 12:55 AM   #38
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I think self-radicalization is certainly part of it...and that I think speaks to a greater issue at large that people don't feel at home. It was mentioned in the Chatbox to Thane when we saw Paris, but a big reason Paris gets so many attacks is because second (and later) generation Muslims groups get ostracized by the community. They by all means are French. They were born in France, speak French, and call themselves French citizens. But some aren't treated as French and it gives some an identity crisis. Paris has a bit of a problem here where there's even some problems if you speak Quebecois French in Paris.
It might be. Integrating into another society is important for immigrant groups. There are some cultures and groups that integrate well into mainstream society, and there are some that clash with the predominant culture. This issue will definitely be raised more in the future, especially when considering the influx of migrants and refugees from the middle east. Whether it's because of religion or other cultural reasons, sometimes there are (violent) clashes because of these differences.

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WTF America.
CNN is awful. I've lost a lot of faith in mainstream media recently. I think at one point the person's mother's social security number was even shown uncensored. This is a travesty.
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Old 12-07-2015, 02:18 AM   #39
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It might be. Integrating into another society is important for immigrant groups. There are some cultures and groups that integrate well into mainstream society, and there are some that clash with the predominant culture. This issue will definitely be raised more in the future, especially when considering the influx of migrants and refugees from the middle east. Whether it's because of religion or other cultural reasons, sometimes there are (violent) clashes because of these differences.
Part of it is on the immigrant, yes, given that they must integrate into a new culture. However (and this might be because Canada often puts the emphasis on multiculturalism first and foremost in terms of immigration), part of it is on the accepting nation and its citizens to provide a welcoming environment for the immigrant. That you can bring your own culture from abroad provided it doesn't conflict with existing law.

I think I do struggle responding here since your wording hits that the onus is on the immigrant to integrate into their new society. It's a two-way street to me...that both the nation and the new citizen must work hand-in-hand to make it work. It that sense, I would suggest that some nations also don't integrate citizens well. I would think an excellent example is Japan where there's a bit of a soft racism going on (unless you're Korean or Chinese. Lots of bad blood there and it goes both ways). I would then further posit that France is one of those nations which struggles when taking immigrants.

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CNN is awful. I've lost a lot of faith in mainstream media recently. I think at one point the person's mother's social security number was even shown uncensored. This is a travesty.
The network itself is bad but what I refer to is the absolute incompetency of the police and the willingness of the media to jump all over the insides of the building. I mean, I get it, you all want the top story and want to break it first. But it's strange to hear Anderson Cooper to become the voice of reason and stranger yet for the police to not lock that place down tight. Being able to just waltz right up to the landlord and ask "hey, can we see that room now?" is just crazy.
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Old 07-08-2016, 06:45 AM   #40
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11 Police Officers shot, currently 4 lethally, during a protest in Dallas.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle30816160/

...You know, the number of times I've had to tell myself "this is just getting stupid" is far too high.

Edit - Okay. Just have to get this off my chest...how the hell do you get a long range weapon? If this is legal, it really shouldn't.
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