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Old 06-20-2018, 08:00 PM   #351
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Old 06-20-2018, 09:35 PM   #352
kirant
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Off the top, let me point out that Trump has backed down on the issue and has signed an Executive Order requesting families of illegal immigrants be kept together during adjudication. This after previously suggesting that he had no power to do so.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1JG27Q

Edit - Interesting point someone made: The Trump Administration's intent to still prosecute every family and this new Executive Order will likely cause a breach of the Flores settlement (children cannot be detained for over 20 days) and it will likely be found unconstitutional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
This is a bad situation that never should have happened. Its like how bad women on welfare crank out babies just for a check, never should have allowed it to be started.
It's also a situation most countries face on a routine basis (often with higher intensity) and handle with more civility than the current White House. The USA is pretty lucky to be as isolated as it is.

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Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
We got tired of a government treating us like crap so we fought.
About half of you wanted to leave, 3% of you actually fought. The other half thought it was a good idea to remain in the British empire. And many fled to Canadian soil to avoid the whole mess.

Just because a vocal component of the USA wanted to happen doesn't make it a universal stance and doesn't mean everybody wants to fight. If you've got a family and aren't attached to your nation, why bother sitting in those dangerous conditions?

And the same goes for those who seek to leave messes like Mexico or Venezuela.

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Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
as you wont see daily like I have here, the number of Mexicans barking about Mexican pride, yet they're here.
Those also aren't the people at the border. You don't get to paint the Mexican people with the same brush in the same sense I can't paint all Americans based on interactions I have with tourists from the USA.

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Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
wiping out the drug cartel for them.
That's basically asking for another Iraq war scenario. You paid ~2.5 trillion into that and still have a mess with very little effective change.

Not to mention the idea of "buying" Mexico would be insane. Its nominal GDP is 1.1 trillion. Not sure how you want to evaluate it in terms of "economic" portfolio, but that's a pretty hefty amount of change to even consider the sale of a country.

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Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
SO I get tired of people blaming trump, all these people saying poor mexicans, why does no one ever blame the mexican government?
Because:

1) This is a result in change of policy done by the Trump government. Trump could easily turn to Sessions and say "we're no longer going to prosecute everybody" and the families are now separated (well, before the about face by Trump noted at the top of the post).

2) Not everybody at the border is Mexican.

3) That's blaming the victim of the situation. It's not the refugee's fault their government is a train wreck.

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Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
WE let so many people in, these people vote, use our roads, and dont pay taxes,
...Unless they actually pass citizenship exams, they don't vote but still pay tax.

And if they do pass citizenship exams, then they're American citizens.

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Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
but bottom line in 40 years, tell me it wouldn't result in a better outcome,
The only solution you propose (that could actually happen) is force and to tackle the issue with American might. But to intervene from a distant location doesn't seem like it's a very smart plan. Given how effective Iraq was, I can't say it would work.

And given the Iraq situation, you might just end up with a lot of debt and no real tangible gains.

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Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
American law of 'ignorance of the law is no excuse' so dont act like the parents of these kids aren't blameless.
(A moot point here, given the change in policy, but I'll post this for sake of completion)

But the kids, for the most part, are blameless. They're just being hauled around by mom and dad...they've done nothing to justify their fate.

American law would commonly dictate that too. Had they been considered accountable for their actions, they would have been put into the same processing facilities as their parents.
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Old Yesterday, 04:18 AM   #353
Thane of Cawdor
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Did you say America was isolated?
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Old Yesterday, 09:24 AM   #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
Did you say America was isolated?
Geographically, yeah (the exact intention of the segment you look to cherry pick for response). Your neighbours are Canada (whom you share a very cozy relationship with...typically) and Mexico (who is as relevant in most situations as any other part of Central America). Contrast the packed nature of countries in Europe and Asia.

It’s not exactly like there are many borders where people come scrambling in to claim asylum. More head to Canada from the USA regarding asylum than vice versa...which makes Mexico the only relevant border in that regard.

That physical isolation let the USA avoid any serious infrastructure damage in WWII and plays heavily in its military grand strategy (typically setting up mobile chain of command and establishing bases off their own soil). It also allows for basically no sane options for an actual attack on USA’s soil unless Canada or Mexico are driven away from the USA (and why having good relations with both is key from the USA’s perspective).

(Edit - added “sane” above. An amphibious assault is always possible, but the logistics on continuing one on US soil and holding that land is pretty difficult)

I can’t imagine how much screaming there would be if a mentality like the USA’s existed while sharing borders like Turkey’s. And that goes double given that Turkey is a major country to claim asylum in right now for Syrian refugees.
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Old Yesterday, 05:51 PM   #355
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Immigrant kids drugged by staff in government facility

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Old Today, 12:17 AM   #356
Thane of Cawdor
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Holy cow dude, I actually watched the news. This is NO concentration camp, the kids are given book work, they're in an air conditioned place with medical treatment and food, this is like school man! It may not be perfect but if you were detained in Mexico it wouldn't be this good. This is temporary. People whining that kids arent happy there, hey I wasn't happy in school either, its temporary. People are blowing this out of proportion, action will be taken soon. Stop watchin the news so much, its gonna drive you bonkers.
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