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Old 06-16-2017, 07:09 AM   #111
Thane of Cawdor
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I know that, boy you really need everything in writing don't you?
and I counter your numbers, 95% of the world believes in a higher power.

So if you guys heard, given there is no concrete evidence of Trump himself actually colluding with Russia to tamper with the election, seeing how its about to die out, they finally made it formal. The liberals want to formally charge President Trump with obstruction. So...everyone get your popcorn, we MAY have an impeachment trial after all. Let's watch.
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Old 06-16-2017, 08:20 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
I know that, boy you really need everything in writing don't you?
When you only quote is this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
and im basing that fact, kkirant, on the fact that ive never met a republican athiest
To defend this:
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Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
tis mostly true, if you're an athiest, odds are like 90% or more you're a liberal.
My argument is "your personal experience means nothing for statistics". In essence, your claim that the stereotypes are true don't agree with the numbers.

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and I counter your numbers, 95% of the world believes in a higher power.
Approximately 15% don't believe in a "god" or "gods". You could also argue that should be 20-25% depending on how you classify Buddhism (as you can technically qualify it as a religion with no true deity).

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

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So if you guys heard, given there is no concrete evidence of Trump himself actually colluding with Russia to tamper with the election, seeing how its about to die out, they finally made it formal. The liberals want to formally charge President Trump with obstruction.
Increasing the number of investigations doesn't make you automatically innocent of the first one.

If I'm in town while the police are investigating an assault case against me and they start investigating me for murder of a different person, it doesn't make me innocent on the assault case.

We must wait until the investigation completes to decide whether or not there is evidence to suggest a trial should take place. All that we know right now is that there's two ongoing investigations, one for Russian interference and one for obstruction of justice...and that Trump is under personal investigation in the latter while the FBI has been silent on the former with our last data point being back when Comey was fired (at which point he was not under direct investigation).
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Old 06-24-2017, 09:14 PM   #113
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Driftglass knocks one out of the park.

In the Beginning

Digby at Hullabaloo:

They Welcomed the Interference

Quote:
The simple truth is that the Republicans welcomed a foreign government interfering in the election on their behalf. They knew and they were happy about it and they are now doing everything in their power to cover it up. There is no other way to look at it.

Republican leaders were so hungry to kill people on Medicaid, bankrupt the middle class and give tax cuts to their millionaire friends that they knowingly allowed a foreign government to help that corrupt, incompetent imbecile into the White House. Think about that.
I believe the word Digby is searching for is "treason".

Pigs will sprout wings and soar over the frozen plains of Hell before I vote for a Republican.
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Old 06-24-2017, 10:00 PM   #114
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Here's proof that's a rambling wrong opinion.

If the republicans bankrupted the middle class who would pay for the goods the rich guys of corporations sold? See?

And who are they accusing of murder?
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Old 06-24-2017, 10:42 PM   #115
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Here's proof that's a rambling wrong opinion.

If the republicans bankrupted the middle class who would pay for the goods the rich guys of corporations sold? See?

And who are they accusing of murder?
I assume by "murder", you are referring to her (her, since you say nothing about Driftglass's essay) mention of cutting Medicaid, thus causing some people to die for lack of medical care. Perhaps "negligent homicide" would be a more precise term.

As for the other, you assume that the rich guys are smart enough to realize that. That is a common fallacy, especially in the USA. In our country, we tend to feel entirely too much respect for both money, and for the people who have it, by whatever means (usually inheritance, ultimately going back to ancestors who were the most successful unpunished criminals of their time).

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You also assume that most rich people still make their money by making and selling things, instead of through financial manipulations, and rents of various sorts. That assumption is questionable.
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Old 06-25-2017, 12:33 AM   #116
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If you're looking for a more factual transcript of the above, here's the basic notes of what KC and Thane are discussing:

- In a Washington Post article (Washington Post being a fairly Democrat favouring paper), they reported that Obama was given prior knowledge of Russian interference in the USA 2016 Presidential election. He chose to not come forth publicly about it for fear of making it too political and instead asked his intelligence agencies to plant digital "bombs" in the Russian intelligence structure which the next president could utilize if they so desired.

- Trump took to Twitter soon after to basically use this as evidence that Obama did something wrong. This of course is another 180 of his as he, until recently, was basically ignoring the consensus of his intelligence agencies, which were unanimous in the opinion that Russia attempted to interfere with the election results to favour the Republican party.

--

The blog post KC posts takes it a bit further and suggests the Republican party was well aware of this and accepted the assistance. This is a little stretch at the moment as the intelligence agencies are doing investigations to determine who knew about this outside influence and how much they knew at all levels.

--

As to the other part, the text I have read of the Republican house proposal to health care changes are ultimately quite cynical in development. Granted, many criticisms of this development could be made for the way the ACA was handled though this case is far more extreme (ex - the Republicans and Democrats both drafted their respective legislation behind closed doors but Obama made attempts to have the two parties meet and discuss it on live TV before tabling it. No such attempt has been made by the house Republicans here).

The bill is ultimately a tax break for the wealthy at the expense of those desperate need. This isn't a hugely popular bill and retains about 30% support ( https://morningconsult.com/2017/06/2...s-since-april/ ). For reference, the first attempt in May had about 25% support ( http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...pproval-239873 ). The drops have been heavily from the Republican party, with opposition doubling from 16 to 30% (and support of the bill dropping from 67% to 56%). One would imagine other parties have gone into a more neutral stance until they get the Senate passed version.

Even more terrifying is that most seem to just support the bill in principle. The support for actually passing it without modification is a paltry 9% of the population.

The bill also faces further hurdles as the bill currently has 5 Republican Senators ready to vote against it (which would mean they would have to will over 3 to get it passed as well as retain unity among the other 47).
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Old 06-25-2017, 12:57 AM   #117
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Yes but by your definition of "financial manipulation" typically you need money to make money. and if its investing, ultimately its going to the middle class, as the rich don't need to borrow money for investing if theyre rich enough to have there own. you're familiar with trickle down right? well this is the other side. the rich would need the middle class to grow exponentially richer. ultimately business sell either goods or services, wouldnt you agree?

and kirant according to your so called newspaper report, Obama knew the russians were gonna try and hack in and do nothing? KC, do ya wanna charge obama with treason as well?

and yes i am making the assumption that (as a whole) the rich are smarter.

you just hate the fat cats, i know ya do :)
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Old 06-25-2017, 02:38 AM   #118
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and kirant according to your so called newspaper report, Obama knew the russians were gonna try and hack in and do nothing?
Incorrect. The Washington Post article, again if true, suggests that Obama acted but didn't make it public as he didn't want to make it look political. Or is "prepping digital weapons for the next president to use if they want" and slapping sanctions "doing nothing"?

I mean, imagine the uproar had he said "Russia is helping the Republicans" back in September. That's pouring gasoline on the tire fire of an election.

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you just hate the fat cats, i know ya do :)
Not really. I am actually more disappointed with how this is another case of Trump breaking his campaign promise. One of the few appealing proposals he had was to ensure that those under coverage would not lose protection when he revamps healthcare. But here we are, with a bitter pill ready for those most needing government assistance. Many in territories that Trump claimed he'd fight for (ex - coal industry counties).
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Old 06-25-2017, 02:54 AM   #119
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*snip* you just hate the fat cats, i know ya do :)
The "fat cats" manipulate my country's political system to force my fellow citizens to work for inadequate wages in unsafe conditions, or to do without a decent job at all, or to do without health care and proper education and even food.

The "fat cats" do not give one hair off a rat's @$$ whether I and other ordinary USAmericans live or die--and BTW, that includes you. The rich men you admire do not give a flying fornication if you die a slow, agonizing death by starvation or a disease you can't afford to have treated.

The "fat cats" do not care if a hostile foreign power (*cough*Russia*cough*) tries to take over our country by manipulating gullible citizens through the Moron Exchange--oh, excuse me, social media--and even actually tampering with the election systems to install a puppet of Putin in the White House, just so the fat cats get their tax cuts and subsidies from the Treason Party--oops, excuse me, the Republican Party. Their predecessors in fatcattery--probably their ancestors, in some cases--cheerfully did business with the Axis Powers while our country was fighting those monsters in WW2, so treason is nothing new to these snakes.

The fat cats go beyond the sins of Ebenezer Scrooge (before Scrooge's reform) and actually commit treason to the USA.

Should I love them?

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Fair warning: Esquire's website is full of bells and whistles, including an annoying pop-up ad which nearly DEMANDS that you subscribe to their Best of (whatever) Lists, and makes you wait several seconds before you can say "No".

Having said that, Charlie Pierce hits one out of the park.


This, Right Here. This Is Where Obama Choked.


(So no, I don't think Obama is a traitor. I just think that, as he did for his whole Presidency, he underestimated the depravity of his opponents.)
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Old 06-25-2017, 08:17 AM   #120
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in defense of myself, anyone who is "manipulated" by social media is a sheep and in need of education, lest they WILL be used to make the rich richer. Sorry but there's a crap ton of stupid people in america. You can join em or rise above em, make your own money, and if you become rich, start your own charity to try and teach them. That's my goal, it should be anyone's who care's enough to not save the stupid from themselves but educate them enough to not be dumb enough to let social media brainwash you. turn the smartphone off sometimes.

calling the republican party the treason party, ya mean half the country? actually by congress representation, more than half. therefore it wouldnt be a party, it would be the will of america, would it not?

i didnt ask ya to hate the fat cats, i just know you hate corporations more than government. ideally, a government is a rule center that structures the economy, no more. id rather have corporations luring and enticing me to buy their crap rather than a government force me to have to buy their stuff. sounds like obamacare?
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