Lucky Star Shrine Forums
 
Go Back   Lucky Star Shrine Forums > General > General Chat

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-02-2016, 07:42 AM   #21
kirant
I (somehow) evolved Ditto
 
kirant's Avatar
 
Location : Wars World, Black Hole HQ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
dont worry when Trump gets in they'll get rid of this retarded Obamacare crap.
To be fair, unless Misao works for one for a really small company.

Additionally, I don't think it'd work that way unless the Republicans can take all three levels over (as I don't think an Executive Order can technically dismantle the act. Could be wrong on that one though). Which is likely going to come down to whether or not Trump can win the candidacy (the ripples from the first debate are slowing down and seem to reveal he's dropped about 10% in winning odds. fivethirtyeight has him at 33% chance right now). The Senate is a slight edge to the Democrats (more likely to get 51 seats than 50, but basically a toss up) while the Representatives is an edge to the Republicans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
Kirant you know the idiot we picked to spearhead this new system was the person who screwed up your country and was fired.
I...don't actually understand that sentence due to ambiguous pronouns. I don't know if the "idiot you picked" refers to Obama or someone else.

I mean, if it's referring to Obama, Obama never got "fired". He's at the legal limit of terms served. He really didn't screw up Canada ether. Was he ultimately USA-centric? Yes. He's built an energy policy which places focus on USA produced oil and gas first and foremost. The national energy reserve for you guys has become stronger and you're slowly decreasing foreign imports. Does this hurt Canada? Of course. But I've always thought that it was a matter of time before Canada has to work on a new strategy. Being blessed with awesome stuff under our the nation's feet only works as long as the nation does something with that money. Norway had similar blessings and opted to dump boatloads of it into an extremely well functioning dividend system that pays for incredible amounts of their social programs...something I've wanted for years in Alberta and Canada.

If you refer to someone specific in the Act's execution, let me know. I mean, I don't know the interior execution of the act as well as I know the text of the law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
I know enough Canadians to know your medical system has some problems.
Canada does. However, I think it's a problem with being close to USA. Canadians expect top tier Europe level health care provisions at USA level tax rates. Canadians refuse more taxation but demand that we have a strong health care system. The trade off here is paying in time. MRIs are on the order of months for a scan when you account for priority individuals needing it more urgently.

It's not something that needs major correction. Taxation or introduction of a small private practice (my understanding is that there are only 2-3 private spinal surgical centres across Canada) to include some services deemed part of the Canada Health Act would provide some extreme relief to some flooded systems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
Ours was worse :P I so hope they erase that system and start over. It cost a fortune and hurt more than it helped.
USA's health care system is a nightmare from its inception. It restricts the notion of innovation (FDA takes on so much risk that it will observe new technology that it may take decades for a good idea's implementation; Europe basically gets all the new toys), costs way more than it needs to for a given level of service, and only is a real advantage if you're wealthy. To me, the reforms by Obama represent an attempt to close loopholes as quickly as possible to prevent someone from being kicked onto the streets without treatment. Is it good? No. It's horribly flawed. But it's the best I could see working in USA without your own rendition of Tommy Douglas.
__________________

Ruri's Law: The vast majority of people are idiots (including myself)
Shameless Self-Plug - Updated May 30 - A Letter to a Younger Me Anime Edition
kirant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2016, 01:11 PM   #22
Jassassino
Il Principe
 
Jassassino's Avatar
 
Location : United Kingdom
Has anyone seen what Gary Johnson recently fucked up on? He genuinely forgot the name of a former Mexican President which he apparently idolised. That being said, he's still 10-15% on polls, if it was Bernie I bet it'd be a heck of a lot more for a third party candidate, which is a shame. You Americans could really do with breaking your two party politics. It's kind of blocking your country imo.
__________________
Jassassino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2016, 05:50 PM   #23
Gondolin
The Hidden Rock
 
Gondolin's Avatar
 
Location : Illinois
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jassassino View Post
Has anyone seen what Gary Johnson recently fucked up on? He genuinely forgot the name of a former Mexican President which he apparently idolised.
\_(ツ)_/
I'm surprised that something like this happened after the Aleppo incident, though I'd still prefer someone who forgets a few things in interviews to Trump in the White House.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jassassino View Post
That being said, he's still 10-15% on polls, if it was Bernie I bet it'd be a heck of a lot more for a third party candidate, which is a shame.
I'm sure it would. Even though he's out of the race, I still see plenty of support for him on my college campus. However, I think he probably made the right choice in not continuing to run under the banner of a third party, as I think that ultimately one of the most important outcomes of this election is who's going to be put on the Supreme Court, and loath though I am to say it, despite everything, I'd rather have Clinton deciding that than Trump, and if Sanders were to continue running, the Democratic vote may just end up split enough that Trump comes out on top- something Sanders certainly doesn't want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jassassino View Post
You Americans could really do with breaking your two party politics. It's kind of blocking your country imo.
If only it were so easy. The system itself is set up to perpetuate the two party system, so short of major, major reform, I don't see it going away. From everything I've studied, I think a parliamentary system would potentially be a much better and much more democratic option, but the last thing that's going to happen in the U.S. is a complete reform of government structure.

Term limits on congressmen, another look at how elections are funded, and initiatives to get people to care about elections other than the Presidential one would all be good steps to take.
__________________
Gondolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2016, 07:25 PM   #24
kirant
I (somehow) evolved Ditto
 
kirant's Avatar
 
Location : Wars World, Black Hole HQ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gondolin View Post
If only it were so easy. The system itself is set up to perpetuate the two party system, so short of major, major reform, I don't see it going away. From everything I've studied, I think a parliamentary system would potentially be a much better and much more democratic option, but the last thing that's going to happen in the U.S. is a complete reform of government structure.
The one thing your government structure has going for it is "log jams if anything goes wrong"...much like the Roman Republic. I agree that reforming the system would be nightmarish. I mean, you guys are so heavily entrenched in partisan politics at this point that you basically need a coincidence of having all three elected groups on your side to enact any meaningful legislation.

I actually would love a GOOD third party candidate to show up just to show how broken the government system is. Let's let CGP Grey explain this one:



Edit - My favourite result right now is the one proposed by Nate Silver as "the crazy ending" - Clinton wins 267, Trump wins 266, Johnson gets 5 (New Mexico). All sides claim victory (Clinton by most votes in Electoral College, Trump by claiming the votes reject status quo, Johnson because he won votes). Nobody has a majority and I go out to buy a bucket of popcorn because this would get good quick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gondolin View Post
Term limits on congressmen, another look at how elections are funded, and initiatives to get people to care about elections other than the Presidential one would all be good steps to take.
I think a major aspect would be basic education. I suspect a major issue here is that people don't really understand how shackled the President really is. Executive Orders exist but have limited scope as to where they can go. Almost any other nation's leader, if given a nation the strength and capacity of the US', could wield more power than the President. I'm sure I've said it many times at this point but the USA's system is designed for stalling out and preventing domination by a party/individual over actually getting things done.
__________________

Ruri's Law: The vast majority of people are idiots (including myself)
Shameless Self-Plug - Updated May 30 - A Letter to a Younger Me Anime Edition

Last edited by kirant; 10-02-2016 at 07:33 PM.
kirant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2016, 08:12 PM   #25
Gondolin
The Hidden Rock
 
Gondolin's Avatar
 
Location : Illinois
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirant View Post
The one thing your government structure has going for it is "log jams if anything goes wrong"...much like the Roman Republic. I agree that reforming the system would be nightmarish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirant View Post
I've said it many times at this point but the USA's system is designed for stalling out and preventing domination by a party/individual over actually getting things done.
It's a tough question. I agree that the 'log jamming' is a positive aspect of the system, but at the same time, it's difficult to deny the appeal of 'the benevolent dictator,' especially if the resilience of the system is making the issues you care about take more time. It's easy to imagine the frustration some same-sex couples certainly felt by having to wait during all the time that led up to the Supreme Court's decision in 2015. But of course, the other side of that coin is making it difficult for legislation/decisions that would hurt people/the nation from being pushed through as quickly (not that these things don't happen).


Quote:
Originally Posted by kirant View Post
I actually would love a GOOD third party candidate to show up just to show how broken the government system is. Let's let CGP Grey explain this one:

Edit - My favourite result right now is the one proposed by Nate Silver as "the crazy ending" - Clinton wins 267, Trump wins 266, Johnson gets 5 (New Mexico). All sides claim victory (Clinton by most votes in Electoral College, Trump by claiming the votes reject status quo, Johnson because he won votes). Nobody has a majority and I go out to buy a bucket of popcorn because this would get good quick.
Gotta love the CGP grey.
That would be an interesting result. Here's to hoping?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirant View Post
I think a major aspect would be basic education. I suspect a major issue here is that people don't really understand how shackled the President really is. Executive Orders exist but have limited scope as to where they can go. Almost any other nation's leader, if given a nation the strength and capacity of the US', could wield more power than the President.
Huh, that's something I hadn't ever really considered. Though maybe it's a good thing that the person leading the nation with that much strength is somewhat constrained.
__________________
Gondolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2016, 08:31 PM   #26
Kid Charlemagne
OH, ****! SHE KNOWS!
 
Kid Charlemagne's Avatar
 
Location : The Arkanshire
The first Clinton-Trump debate--Saturday Night Live style. ^_^
__________________

Americanda Forever!
Kid Charlemagne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2016, 08:39 PM   #27
Misao
Posting Freak
 
Misao's Avatar
 
... i saw a tweet last night from @therealdonaldtrump saying that he's upset that Robert De Niro, whom he has never met, was so harsh toward him on SNL, and that he is going to pay.

..... SOMEONE PLEASE tell me this is a joke!
__________________
I am a fan of the dub. It was the dub that introduced me to Lucky Star, and is great. Just to let you members know this beforehand.

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/a...g?t=1268457898
Misao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2016, 10:02 PM   #28
kirant
I (somehow) evolved Ditto
 
kirant's Avatar
 
Location : Wars World, Black Hole HQ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gondolin View Post
It's a tough question. I agree that the 'log jamming' is a positive aspect of the system, but at the same time, it's difficult to deny the appeal of 'the benevolent dictator,' especially if the resilience of the system is making the issues you care about take more time.
I'd agree with this analysis. The Roman Republic found the same thing: when things were working well, the Republic did great. It was very much the glory of the world. But, and I use this example since it's easy to learn more if you go to Extra Credits, as they found out in its declining days, you can game the system to be absolutely unworkable.

I'd say the same is true in the current USA system. Since WWII, the nation has slowly shifted towards partisanship. It's clearly visible by the end of the Reagan era and fully solidifies by Clinton (which, incidentally, are the same eras the views on Republicans and Democrats changed to what they are today. I mean, California was a Republican state before then).

I've heard one theory state that the rise of cable TV and increased prominence of politicians on TV created a major issue. That is, people didn't like seeing their politicians doing such horrible things as working with the other party and compromising.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gondolin View Post
But of course, the other side of that coin is making it difficult for legislation/decisions that would hurt people/the nation from being pushed through as quickly (not that these things don't happen).
This is the hallmark of real conservatism. And something that needs to exist it governance.

One issue that I've always had with Canadian democracy is its inability to control a majority. It basically becomes rule by tyranny if 50% of the seats go to a party since our Senate barely does anything. There's no accountability. My province just came out of ~40 years of one-party rule to only head to another majority. Each side seems just as bad as the other at handling power. These systems IMO require 4-5 major parties to actually work. Basically, Canada has Liberals and Conservatives with fringe parties NDP (further left), Bloc Quebecois (only runs, and really only concerns itself with issues within, Quebec), and Green (take a wild guess). The existence of the NDP and another major party as real parties (that is, threaten to form government) would likely drop the results in Canada to non-majority governments. Minority governance in the parliament system works as the party must agree with an overseeing body. Even if it does mean elections for a new government every 2-3 years (the average length a party will go without toppling the government via non-confidence motion. Majorities run a full 5 typically).

(Side note on the whole Senate topic:
Spoiler: show
It became a whole fiasco this summer when the Senate actually rejected the Liberal government's bill on assisted dying (saying that the limitations are too restrictive. If you're curious, they wanted to strike out a segment which said that death had to be reasonably foreseeable. They eventually backed down as they didn't feel it was their rule, as non-elected officials, to hold up legislation placed by elected officials).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gondolin View Post
That would be an interesting result. Here's to hoping?
Well, I don't think those in USA would like it much. It would become a 24/7 clusterfata of yelling and screaming on TV, people getting even more partisan on the streets, and one side yelling bloody murder when a president finally gets picked.

Though I think in that case the medicine would be worth the reward. I really would feel at that point your nation would have to decide that these rules are really kind of stupid at grid locking. The constitution treats the country as a union of independent states whereas they are really more like Canadian provinces...most can't operate on their own. I mean, if the states acted more like countries in the EU than they did provinces in Canada, I'd be more inclined to say things should stay status quo. But they really aren't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gondolin View Post
Huh, that's something I hadn't ever really considered. Though maybe it's a good thing that the person leading the nation with that much strength is somewhat constrained.
It's good as long as the pieces actually work together. Something that really isn't happening.
__________________

Ruri's Law: The vast majority of people are idiots (including myself)
Shameless Self-Plug - Updated May 30 - A Letter to a Younger Me Anime Edition
kirant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2016, 01:34 AM   #29
Thane of Cawdor
Yuri connoisseur advisor
 
Thane of Cawdor's Avatar
 
I got a good idea. We split the 2 party system. If for some reason Hillary is elected, we go to Texas and form "The Confederate States of Texas" as a 'republican' country and the liberals get california. we fight for the rest. So in conclusion, yeah the South shoulda won the civil war and we wouldnt have these problems. I think that's a good idea. We just split.
__________________
Thrice banned
Spoiler: show
Thane of Cawdor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2016, 01:49 AM   #30
Kid Charlemagne
OH, ****! SHE KNOWS!
 
Kid Charlemagne's Avatar
 
Location : The Arkanshire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
I got a good idea. We split the 2 party system. If for some reason Hillary is elected, we go to Texas and form "The Confederate States of Texas" as a 'republican' country and the liberals get california. we fight for the rest. So in conclusion, yeah the South shoulda won the civil war and we wouldnt have these problems. I think that's a good idea. We just split.
If that was a joke, it's not funny.

My people tried that sort of thing once (my great-great-grandfather was a Rebel soldier). The result was the bloodiest war in our country's history, and a ruined Southland, which is why it's not funny if it was meant as a joke.

Given the general stupidity and selfishness of the planter class, if the South had broken away "successfully", I suspect that it would have degenerated into an English-speaking version of a banana republic (a "cotton republic", perhaps).

Take it away, Captain...
Spoiler: show
__________________

Americanda Forever!
Kid Charlemagne is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Theme By : Companyturk