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Old 10-31-2015, 10:02 PM   #1
kirant
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Russian Airbus crashes in Egypt

224 dead, no survivors. The plane had logged over 21,000 flights and 56,000 hours over 18 years.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0SP06V20151031

Quote:
A Russian airliner carrying 224 passengers crashed into a mountainous area of Egypt's Sinai peninsula on Saturday shortly after losing radar contact near cruising altitude, killing all aboard.

A militant group affiliated to Islamic State in Egypt, Sinai Province, said in a statement it had brought down the plane "in response to Russian airstrikes that killed hundreds of Muslims on Syrian land", but Russia's Transport Minister told Interfax news agency the claim "can't be considered accurate".
Early reports are that deceased were found over a large (last I heard, ~5 km) range around the crash site, suggesting a mid-air breakup.
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Old 10-31-2015, 10:03 PM   #2
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Yikes!
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Old 10-31-2015, 11:06 PM   #3
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Damn freakin muslims! I say we drop the big bomb, these acts of terrorism have got to stop! Spineless terrorists killing innocent civilians. Ugh. So sad that innocent people have to suffer cause of them. My condolences to the families of the victims.
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Old 11-01-2015, 12:48 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
Damn freakin muslims! I say we drop the big bomb, these acts of terrorism have got to stop! Spineless terrorists killing innocent civilians. Ugh. So sad that innocent people have to suffer cause of them. My condolences to the families of the victims.
Thanks for totally not confirming every stereotype of Americans ever.

It's an emotional thing to see for sure. But let's not even begin to speak, well, any of those except maybe those last two sentences. Misinformation and knee-jerk reactions are the bane of existence for truth and all reaction should follow truth. Am I saying it's impossible that ISIS/ISIL are the cause of this? No. It's entirely possible. But we must wait for proper channels of investigation to determine this. Proclaiming such extreme reactions helps nobody.

Also, remember that ISIS and ISIL are not representations of the Muslim belief system at the same level that Westboro Baptist Church is not a representation of Biblical beliefs.

We must recall the key facts so far:
- The crew reported technical malfunctions to the Air Traffic Control. This rarely happens unless there is something really wrong with the plane.
- The plane did not suddenly vanish from radar. They could even plot that it was descending at 6000 ft/minute.
- If it is indeed an act of weapons fire, then we must consider how difficult it is. IIRC, this altitude is too high for Stinger ADS, even if you make all the perfect assumptions (that is, it has a range of 5 miles, ~26000 feet, and the airline was at cruising altitude, 30000 feet).
- Russian aircraft transportation have been hurting. Even the article mentions that there are major breakdowns in quality assurance the past few years.
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Old 11-01-2015, 07:00 AM   #5
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Yeah I heard stories. Stories about conspiricies that 9/11 was an inside job. and yes I'm fitting as an American. And ya remember those two towers? We're still angry about that. Whether or not the muslims did it, that group took responsibility, which is at minimum, an offensive slap in the face. I for one am in favor of redoubling our efforts to wipe out these muslim extremists.

And I'm tired of political correctness saying I'm not allowed to use the word "muslim terrorist extremist." Every time man.

So yeah, sorry but I'm still mad. And yes these terrorists are freaking cowards.
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Old 11-01-2015, 08:09 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
Yeah I heard stories. Stories about conspiricies that 9/11 was an inside job. and yes I'm fitting as an American
No clue what this is tying to since I have said nothing about the events of 9/11 nor the idea of a conspiracy.

I would still classify it as a horrifying use of aircraft to strike fear in to the "Western world" (that is, terrorism) by striking a powerful nation's economic, military, and likely government symbols (as many do believe that last plane was going for the White House). Nothing in that statement seems to contradict those ideas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
And ya remember those two towers? We're still angry about that. Whether or not the muslims did it, that group took responsibility, which is at minimum, an offensive slap in the face. I for one am in favor of redoubling our efforts to wipe out these muslim extremists.
Except Muslims as a whole didn't take responsibility for it. A splinter faction did. One which stands for things many normal individuals of any religion or background do not agree. It's a group which believe in militant Islamism (which is to say that they agree with monotheist beliefs as procured by the Qur'an, but have a different approach to certain tenants). Again, they're the same to Islam as Westboro is to the Biblical religions: just one shade of it. It wouldn't be fair to say that all those under the religions which believe the Bible agree with the "Thank god for dead soldiers" statement, would it?

Is it a good idea to prevent the fruition of extreme notions? Possibly. I would wonder to what end though since the concept is not an organized movement anymore. There is a military force in the Middle East which identifies itself as an "Islamic State", but much of the actions we fear most and the concept of terrorism as we imagine it about 10 years ago are now shifting from organized assaults to grassroots movement and lone wolf attacks. The platform of social media and emergence of internet as an a place to spread thoughts changes things immensely. Canada suffered that a little over a year ago with two of these lone wolf attacks in late October, one running over a soldier in Quebec and the now well known attack on Canada's Parliament Hill.

Either way, my objections are more to this idea:

Quote:
I say we drop the big bomb
Which is to say that your solution isn't a targeted effort but a mass extermination. Simply put, a means to an end where your means include the death of every man, woman, and child in the area...an idea which states that killing probably 99.9% innocent people to eradicate this small fraction which take violent action. If that even.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
And I'm tired of political correctness saying I'm not allowed to use the word "muslim terrorist extremist." Every time man.
I think you should be allowed to on the condition that it actually fits. I think there are better words for it, as "Muslim extremist" isn't really a descriptor here as well as militant Islamist...but you get my drift.

The big thing here is that we don't even know who or what caused it. The more you read, the more likely it is that the Russian aircraft suffered a technical problem from poor safety regulation. And that's why I'd hesitate to label anything with the idea of terrorism or opportune fire until a full findings report comes out. Heck, even if it was brought down by missile fire, then we have to ask why it was brought down. Could it be a case of mistaken identity and failure to understand the ID on the technology at hand? Or could it be an intentional act meant to horrify and shock those who see a civilian airliner drop? These are all questions we don't know yet.
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Old 09-13-2016, 04:03 AM   #7
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I do remember September 11 very well, as the matter of fact, that was yesterday, but I didn't want to get into it too much because I know that everybody have a opinion or two about it and as it is, things can get a little controversial, still, I don't think it's really fair that we should blame it on one group just like that, good people and bad people come from all areas of life, that's a given as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 09-15-2016, 09:43 AM   #8
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There is no need to post in such a long old forgotten thread. Locking.
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