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Old 08-17-2018, 05:20 AM   #401
kirant
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Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
Nixon got impeached cause he covered up his spying. Obama did the same spying...no one cares anymore.
Nixon got impeached for attempting to unduly influence a United States election, lying about his actions, and abusing his station of government to cover it up.

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Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
Typical canadian mindset there,
Is there some sort of stereotype I'm not aware of?

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Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
it really shows you will waste your whole life unhappy trying to fix every little thing,
Nobody said you have to fix it (though you probably should if it's within your realm of influence). But be aware of the world and realize it for what it is.

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But so many people who say that crap dont DO anything about it.
At least you're talking about what's actually correct and can agree on the facts of the matter.

Basing your argument on falsehoods or misconceptions because that's all you know in your own isolated little circle is not helping.

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id prefer to say look how far we've come
I've never said that we shouldn't. We should be happy with what we've done so far.

But that said, we should look at the road ahead and realize that we have a long way to go. We are nowhere near the top yet. So let's get together and discuss what the next move is.

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Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
The USA doesnt seem to have a problem reporting the news,
It really does. Networks end up reporting half the story, omitting key details or not providing satisfactory context on others.

Not to mention the long list of fluff pieces many offer.

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Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
You really do have to go back to old fashioned news paper articles to get unbiased news to make your own opinion about.
Electronic "news wire" sources like Reuters and Associated Press are amazing at this.

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Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
the smaller the country the easier it is for the government to be monitored by the people thus the US problem
Not really...if you look at a list of corruptions (well, perception of it anyways as actually measuring it is near impossible), you'll find random big countries like Germany near the top:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrup...ceptions_Index

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but 45% spending on education? holy crap, must be a small country, if we spent that on education in america, we'd have a personal robot for every single child, our military aint that much hehe.
The 45% is aggregate of all social programs.

If you were to take the model of Norway or Finland and convert the USA to its model, that would only be a 20-25% increase in spending on social programs...an increase in expenditure entirely dwarfed by the USA military's budget size. Heck, if you use Iceland as a model, Iceland spends less of its GDP than the USA on these programs (and has comparable GDP per capita) but still manages to top it in many fields.

What really gets the USA right now is inefficiencies in program distribution. Healthcare, for example, costs more and does less in the USA unless you're willing to shell out 5 or 6 digits of cash per operation.

In other words, the private side of USA's healthcare is great...but only works if you have hundreds of thousands of dollars to burn on a single procedure.
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Old 08-17-2018, 05:34 AM   #402
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America shouldnt spend that much on social problems cause we're not, whats the word, SOCIAList. That's for people who want the government to run unions, their retirement, every single thing. I can save my own money, and maybe our crappy education is why our government thinks the average american is too stupid to save their own money, thus medicare. I for one would trim medicare and welfare to the point of being almost non-existant as they interfere with the american dream and the ability to make up your own choices with your own money. welfare is severly abused and was supposed to be a pick me up for people who needed it, when what we need is money management and accounting integrated into primary school economics, as not enough people can do basic money management. Please understand my gripe is with welfare, NOT disability, those are different entities.

our healthcare is the worst is you ask me, Obama takes the blame for that screwup. The system needs an overhaul, and privitization has shown to work better and boost effeciency, running them like a profitable business opposed to a government entity will help. IE keeping some of your old equipment that works well enough to treat someone for a cold rather than them not being able to pay for medicine and just 'dealing with it.' it should be run more effectively, and screw the government mandate to NEED to buy insurance, as car insurance is an option as driving is, but no one asked to be born and mandating that i should pay for insurance for breathing is a shot in the face.

what say we get together and privatize all medicine in a larger and more cost effective way? america has the best insurance although expensive, and free healthcare has a wait that can kill you, and being canadian you know that's true.

and yeah there is a stereotype about canadians, mostly that they complain about their post office all the time (ive dealt with purolator, they suck), and not leaving well enough alone. my theory is its too damn cold and you dont get enough sunshine. Get rid of quebec and join america, we have cookies.
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Old 08-17-2018, 07:56 AM   #403
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Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
America shouldnt spend that much on social problems cause we're not, whats the word, SOCIAList.
1) The policies aren't socialist. The Nordic countries actually make it a point to identify that the perception in the USA is wrong (that it would be "welfare on drugs"). Their policies actually exist to encourage workforce participation (and their excel at this, with some amazingly productive employment numbers). Much of it is equal opportunity, meaning that most of the services are available for the poor and wealthy alike.

2) And 30 years ago, Russia was a 1 party rule under the guise of communism. It isn't that anymore. And a couple hundred years ago, the USA was debating if slavery was a good or bad thing.

Things change. Just because the recent history of the USA has been to treat "public services" as a dirty term doesn't mean that it's by default wrong. And to default assuming it's not good because of recent history is to lose sight of what's pragmatic and what could be ultimately better.

(Edit - 20 -> 30. Math before bed isn't a strong suit of mine)

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I for one would trim medicare and welfare to the point of being almost non-existant as they interfere with the american dream
I would claim the bigger threat to the "American dream" is the inability to move economically. Those who are born into money in the USA mostly get to keep it while those who don't earn much don't get "their shot".

Funny enough, the Nordic countries actually do a better job with the American dream than the USA (with some of the highest economic mobility in the world).

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our healthcare is the worst is you ask me, Obama takes the blame for that screwup.
The system was worse before then. At least some of the pressures were reduced under the system.

I will agree Obama did one thing wrong: he didn't go all-in. His original proposal actually had a method for curtailing inflating premiums. However, as part of compromising to ensure it would pass Congress, he struck down part of the proposed ACA. That issue has been rising the last little while

Given how he was pretty much a lame duck for 6 years after, I would have thrown every piece of political capital to get the abandoned part in and avoid the whole premiums issue that exists today.

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The system needs an overhaul, and privitization has shown to work better and boost effeciency,
Evidence is needed.

I mean, there is little tangible evidence to back this up. In fact, the best countries for health and well being tend to run fully public healthcare.

All while spending less than the significantly private USA, who spends the most per person on health care but with, again, mediocre results.

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america has the best insurance although expensive, and free healthcare has a wait that can kill you, and being canadian you know that's true.
Not really.

Canadian healthcare has a triage system. Does it mean some wait? Yes. However, if you need something, you're at the front of the line.

As an example, my uncle needed strict open heart surgery. A matter of life and death. Not "emergency operation" critical, but certainly needed to be done in a hurry.

He was in the surgery room within a couple days.

Those who wait are those who are in discomfort but not dangerous to their life.

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mostly that they complain about their post office all the time (ive dealt with purolator, they suck),
You are literally the only person I've met who ever states this.
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Old 08-21-2018, 05:20 AM   #404
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And yet I've not met a canadian who didnt hate their post office, they're awful in small towns.

PS. my friend had a 4 and a half month wait for a gall bladder surgery in canada. my american friend...2 days. beat that.


Now. Time for some bullshit

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/20...rotesters.html

You know i remember when america toppled the statue of Saddam Hussein. The whole country hated that guy it seems, he was called a dictator, killed his own men.
Now I see people in america fighting in the same damn way to kill our own history. Don't donate the statue, no. its a symbol of hate right? Screw you damn liberals that did this. Screw you for your whining and bitching that ANYTHING confederate was evil and anti black people, right? I am so sick of this I want every protestor kicked in the nads and given a boring ass lecture. Go get a job you freaking hippies and stop trying to remove any type of history. I don't see this happening anywhere else...except in europe where foreign muslims wanna descecrate thousand year old history, we are doing this to our own history and own people! Its got to stop. I am actually saddened by this display of overactive liberal protestors going through these lengths to censor anything confederate. 20 years from now people are gonna say "hey for historic sake let's learn from this." oops, we destroyed antique statues. Move em for crap's sake but don't topple and destroy history, lest we repeat in in the same stupidy of the protestors who are attacking this now. Georgia has a carved statue of confederate horsemen in the side of Stone Mountain, ya gonna topple that too?? Leave well enough alone and try and make the FUTURE better instead of trying to erase the past. Get a job you freaking hippies

One more thing: Tarheels suck, go Wolfpack \../

EDIT again: Screw the Tarheels, go Wolfpack
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Old 08-21-2018, 11:54 AM   #405
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Assuming Thane's information is accurate (anecdotal evidence is notoriously likely to be inaccurate), how many other people also needed gall bladder surgery, but either could not afford it and died, or else were bankrupted by the medical expenses?

EDIT: Just found this on Wonkette about the statue.

https://www.wonkette.com/confederate-statues
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Old 08-22-2018, 01:44 AM   #406
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Originally Posted by Thane of Cawdor View Post
PS. my friend had a 4 and a half month wait for a gall bladder surgery in canada. my american friend...2 days. beat that.
That's...like...no details at all. Gall bladder surgery could cover anything from "well, it might be good for you to have one to save you some pain years from now" to "Oh my god, get into the surgery room right now". Nor the costs. Nor how they were when they were taken out from the hospital.

I could make a similar case, saying "Yeah, my grandmother was offered a next week surgery in the USA for her hip, while it was a 4 month wait in Canada".

But that ignores:

- The expected costs of the USA option was 94k (as oppose to the bill she got in Canada of "What cost?"). Not including flight, living expenses, or rehab.

- My grandmother's condition was only pain and slight reduced mobility (whereas people on there are often in way worse shape).

- She was given a full stay in a recovery ward (well, transitional care) until she could live on her own again.

- She was offered (thought declined) rehab options after.

Similarly, I could say that she got good care recently. And that she had no major problem with wait times despite a non-lethal (but hospital worthy) situation.

All while not having to say "Don't take me to [x]. It's a private hospital." or "I can't afford to go in because it'll cost too much. I'll just sleep it off".

Again, I'm not saying Canada's is perfect by any means. But for things which are considered urgent, there is not a major problem. For quality of life things? Yeah. Canada, compared to most other public healthcare countries, is lagging. Norway and Germany do it way better.

But certainly not a "waiting will kill you" situation.

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The whole country hated that guy it seems, he was called a dictator, killed his own men.
Just going to take an aside and point out that the USA did support Hussein's rise to power.

...What a good horse to bet on.

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Screw you for your whining and bitching that ANYTHING confederate was evil and anti black people, right?
To be fair, this one was pretty transparent.

Here's an excerpt from the speech dedicating it. In 1913.

Quote:
One hundred yards from where we stand, less than ninety days perhaps after my return from Appomattox, I horse-whipped a negro wench until her skirts hung in shreds, because upon the streets of this quiet village she had publicly insulted and maligned a Southern lady, and then rushed for protection to these University buildings where was stationed a garrison of 100 Federal soldiers. I performed the pleasing duty in the immediate presence of the entire garrison, and for thirty nights afterwards slept with a double-barrel shot gun under my head.
I'll never state that doing it yourself is right. This should have been a decision made by the University (and given they are accessing the damage, they might still return it).

That said, it's not hard to see why people strongly dislike what it stands for.

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and stop trying to remove any type of history.
This one has been hotly debated for a long time. The state of North Carolina even gave UNC an out stating that they were fine with its removal if there was a safety threat (https://www.newsobserver.com/news/lo...168501547.html ).

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I don't see this happening anywhere else...
Off the top of my head...in the last few years:
- Victoria just removed their statue of John A McDonald to mend fences with the aboriginal community.
- Halifax removed the statue of Edward Cornwallis.
- Cecil Rhodes' statue was removed in the UK after protest.

Removing statues isn't new. Many statues of Lenin (ex-USSR countries) or the WWII regimes (Italy/Germany) were removed in short order after their respective governments fell.

It's something we've done in the past and something we'll continue to do.

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except in europe where foreign muslims wanna descecrate thousand year old history,


I've seen more citizens firebomb mosques out of fear than I can name refugees destroying history.

In fact, the only Islamic group that I know is destroying things is ISIS (who legitimately were destroying historical ruins). And they're on the run.

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20 years from now people are gonna say "hey for historic sake let's learn from this." oops, we destroyed antique statues.
You guys aren't Rome. You aren't wiping them from history. Just the statue of it.

Plus, this is why I recommend things going to the museum instead of being destroyed. It's where it belongs as a remnant of the past.
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Old 08-23-2018, 06:38 AM   #407
Kid Charlemagne
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Charlie Pierce of Esquire on the toppling of the statue:

Silent Sam Wasn't a Confederate Memorial, It Was a Monument to Lynching and Jim Crow

https://www.esquire.com/news-politic...crow-lynching/

EDIT: Peter Beinart in The Atlantic:

Why Trump Supporters Believe He Is Not Corrupt

They define "corruption" differently.
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Old 08-26-2018, 03:32 AM   #408
Kid Charlemagne
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Senator John McCain has died at 81.

Story from NBC News's website:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ies-81-n790971

May he rest in peace in Raspberry Heaven.



"Death makes angels of us all and gives us wings where we had shoulders smooth as ravens' claws." -- James Douglas Morrison
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:25 PM   #409
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Minor confession: I'm very tired of seeing all the "Custom jersey" spam topics, so bump we go.

Weird thing happening in Canada:

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Ontario's Progressive Conservative party is looking to circumvent the Charter of Rights for its current bill (the Charter of Rights being fairly equivalent to the USA's Bill of Rights). An equivalent in the USA is Article III, Section 2 of the constitution (taking power away from the federal courts, not used since World War II)

The details are less than interesting (changing the number of wards in a municipal government), but the courts have told them that it would violate the Charter of Rights to do it so close to the election.

The PC's response? Screw you. There is a niche circumvention law which says we can introduce it despite the fact that it violates the Charter of Rights ("Notwithstanding clause"). And we'll use it. On this minor law. And we'll continue to use it if we need to.

Background: The Notwithstanding clause is an outlet for use if a bill must be passed quickly and the time it takes courts to make their ruling could severely impact the outcome. Only two provinces have ever used it (Alberta tried, but its use was overruled by courts).

And this isn't mentioning the myriad of lawsuits filed against the government of Ontario.

So...yeah. Ontario's new government looks like a garbage fire. I can't wait for blind populism as a "platform" to end. It's frustrating to watch people with no fundamental understanding of government try to made the government work in ways it clearly shouldn't.


Minor updates to polls and midterm election for USA

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The recent indictments of Manafort and the plea bargain by Cohen have done a fairly hefty toll on Trump's reputation. Any good will gained publicly this year has been counteracted by it, with his support dipping back below 40% today on 538 (an aggregate site which factors in each poll's bias).

Similarly, the odds for House majority in November have started moving. Being at 60-70% chance of Democrat majority prior (depending if historical trends were utilized), they have jumped to 70-80%. By comparison, they had the election result pegged as 70% chance of Clinton victory (and were basically the only research group giving Clinton a reasonable chance of losing, which was the outcome).

A Democrat majority House would not be a shock: the party of the President of the USA typically loses seats (and quite often often majority status if they had it) in House after 2 years.


Other random USA news

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The USA's annual deficit has spiked up 32% last year to 895 billion. Who knew that decreasing taxes while not decreasing spending would increase deficit? I'd also point out that it sounds like the deficit will pass the 1 trillion mark sooner than expected.

It sounds like a planned trip for Trump to head to Ireland has been cancelled.

The International Criminal Court (ICC), undeterred by USA's threats of sanctions by National Security Advisor John Bolton, appears to be ready to continue investigating abuse of detainees by USA's military in Afghanistan.


Random news I can't fit elsewhere

Spoiler: show
Russia has been pointed out as the (obvious) instigator for the chemical weapon attack on two UK individuals. The allegations also identify that the individuals were part of Russia's Military Intelligence Wing (GRU).

Indian top courts have decriminalized homosexuality.

The South Korean ex-president Park Geun-hye has been sentenced to prison time for corruption charges.
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Old 09-18-2018, 07:42 PM   #410
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I gotta rant here:
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment...-time-low.html

It seems the Emmy's was making jokes about christians and republicans. Yeah this happens all the time. And I get it, some jokes are funny but its SO BIASED. I'm sick of it. Liberals, if you're listening. Shut up for once! Can't we have sports, award shows, funerals or any event that brings people together without having to spew your political opinion? Holy crap we get it. You're not a conservative. You don't like trump. You're not happy with how our government looks. Got it, we heard you the last hundred times, shut the hell up for once. Seriously, can we expect this at every Emmy's, Oscar's, super bowl half time, every majorTV event? I know the liberals think they have control of the media, but you don't need to run your mouth ALL THE TIME. It's not all liberals i'm hitting on, the politicans bug me enough but its these celebrities. You're ACTORS and ATHLETES. What says that you get popular that we want to hear your 'expert' opinion on politics, the environment, how to live? You're no expert, you play a football game on a field, you act like a person for a movie, you're just famous, and I for one am getting tired of knowing that I'm gonna get a horribly offensive joke shot at me just cause I'm not a trump-hater. Do we have to have a separate awards, news, sports, entertainment and everything for each side? It's not suppose to be this way. Those making these jokes claim tolerance and unity but they're only driving our country farther apart. Every time now...
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