Deadliest Warrior

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

Who here has watched it?

2nd season starts tonight with an epic match up between the two favorites from the 1st season, the Spartan vs the Samurai.

Who are you going for? Me? i'm going for both.


After that it is the American SWAT team vs the German GSG-9 squad. My prediction is the Swat team.

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/9282/deadliestwarrior.jpg

[CYBERDISC]

wow, this series sounds awesome, never heard of it, gonna check if I can watch it in stream

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

It comes on SPIKE TV.

[CYBERDISC]

It comes on SPIKE TV.

... I don't watch TV at all >__>, like, at all

[Malek]

I'm voting for the SWAT team and Spartan.

[Konata Suzumiya]

I'll go with spartans and gsg-9, can't deny that superior german weaponry.

[furball]

Watched it. loved it. can't wait for season 2.

[Lucky Flame]

I only watch it for the end fight scene, all the stuff before is kind of boring.

[furball]

watching the transition right now

[Malek]

Called it. Boo-Yah.

[furball]

I only watch it for the end fight scene, all the stuff before is kind of boring.

D: but...but...but you get to learn about weapons and cultures!

[Konata Suzumiya]

Wow that was complete crap, not only did they not consider that GSG-9 can take on ALL roles of the field while swat can only take on 1 each *cough*sniper wouldn't be able to operate that shotgun *cough* but they also gave the freaking taser an advantage which made absolutely no sence and they gave the advantage to a gun with higher recoil, more weight, and a larger caliber "cause it makes a bigger hole herp derp".

[Lucky Flame]

And I don't know about you but some of those people look more like actors then professionals.

[furball]

the faked part in ira vs taliban made me lose some respect for it =/

[Lucky Flame]

You can just sort of tell by how they act.

OK, NOE LET'S ENTER THE INFORMATION INTO OUR POWERFUL COMPUTERS LOL.

[kirant]

Wow that was complete crap, not only did they not consider that GSG-9 can take on ALL roles of the field while swat can only take on 1 each *cough*sniper wouldn't be able to operate that shotgun *cough* but they also gave the freaking taser an advantage which made absolutely no sence and they gave the advantage to a gun with higher recoil, more weight, and a larger caliber "cause it makes a bigger hole herp derp".

They don't take into account a lot of stuff. They have a lot of variables (Training, morale, user error during testing, terrain, coordination). All the program takes into account is the cool toys and how effective they were in testing. Heck, this was proven in the first season, where you knew the second they began testing that the Ninja was doomed to lose, as it was a straight up fight.

I agree. IRL, the GSG-9 is a very powerful force and would destroy SWAT teams, even by training alone (The GSG-9 regularily takes part in military excersizes and training while SWAT Teams do in on rare occasion). Again though, the program takes none of that into account.

EDIT -
the faked part in ira vs taliban made me lose some respect for it =/
Why the hell is that? You thought the Taliban should have won? Or did you think terrorists don't deserved to be recognized as "deadly"?

[VK-Skelton]

the faked part in ira vs taliban made me lose some respect for it =/
IRA vs. Taliban?
Am I the only person to find that a little bit tasteless?

[kirant]

IRA vs. Taliban?
Am I the only person to find that a little bit tasteless?

I was going to ask if I was the only person to consider it NOT too soon.

[furball]

the faked part in ira vs taliban made me lose some respect for it =/

Link here http://vuurwapenblog.com/2009/10/21/spike-tvs-not-so-deadliest-warrior/

on anothe note shouldn't it be most deadly warrior?

[VK-Skelton]

One quick google search later:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLRNNnkkldw
Embedding disabled

I love how one of the favorite comments is 'this is gay there just mad because the US is pro IRA'.
I guess the yanks really were funding them after all.

EDIT: Actually, the sheer number of pro-IRA comments is rather frightening, even considering this is youtube.

[Konata Suzumiya]

One quick google search later:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLRNNnkkldw
Embedding disabled

I love how one of the favorite comments is 'this is gay there just mad because the US is pro IRA'.
I guess the yanks really were funding them after all.

EDIT: Actually, the sheer number of pro-IRA comments is rather frightening, even considering this is youtube.

Yea people are really idiots sometimes.

[kirant]

Link here http://vuurwapenblog.com/2009/10/21/spike-tvs-not-so-deadliest-warrior/

on another note shouldn't it be most deadly warrior?
I suspect "real" testing honestly comes in more controlled environments. It gives you more chance to eliminate some errors.

Actually...I think pointing that out makes me feel better about the results. Not by much, but it helps.

[Hiyori's-Boyfriend]

Best F*ck'in show ever made,
Although the IRA vs Taliban was a little far fetch. I dont see my uncle taking on a member of the Taliban and winning.
That episode was banned in the UK, Took me a while to get hold of it.

Oh and...
Spetsnaz pwn Green Berets!

[Konata Suzumiya]

Spetsnaz pwn Green Berets!

Because they chose America's ONCE greatest special forces unit, the Seals and Black ops are much better today, while the Spetsnaz is still one of the top special forces units.

The IRA vs. Spetsnaz one was stupid simply because it was an anti terrorist group vs... terrorists -_- yea I totally wondered who was gonna win that one /sarcasm

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

Best F*ck'in show ever made,
Although the IRA vs Taliban was a little far fetch. I dont see my uncle taking on a member of the Taliban and winning.
That episode was banned in the UK, Took me a while to get hold of it.

Oh and...
Spetsnaz pwn Green Berets!

you do realize that the Spetsnaz only won by 7 wins right? that has been the closest match-up so far in DW history. basically they are within an error margin, meaning that these two are virtually even.

Also way to go Spartan! i would have been happy with either warrior winning because they are my 2 favorite of all time. I was a little surprised to see that the Spartan killed the Samurai more times with his spear than with his shield. Also the Samurai seeing the Shield as a manifestation of weakness was a failure on their part. Of course the Viking Shield was beaten because it was made of simple wood planks while the Spartans was made with interconnecting wood with a thick bronze coating. It took like 7 hits from the samurai's Kanabo and came out of it with only a few dents.

BTW my bro was PISSED that the samurai lost. we was rooting for the Samurai all the way.

As for the Spetz vs the IRA i knew the IRA was going to lose. i mean the Spetz we're MADE to beat groups like them. if anything this one should have been a rematch between the Spetz and the Green Barrette. THIS TIME ACTUALLY ADDING IN THE GREEN BARRETTE'S KAEVLAR AND STEAL BULLET PROOF VESTS!!!!

As for the SWAT vs GSG-9. Yes the GSG-9 was a good group but having the SWAT win i knew was going to happen. 3 reasons:
1. The SWAT team had slightly better weapons. Having a higher caliber round can make all the difference in a battle. Better stopping power translates to less rounds needing to be used to take out someone and thus more ammo to take out more people.
2. SWAT team members bring to the game actual life experience to the team before being chosen. several years training and several years on actual police rounds helps alot.
3. SWAT overall has more on the job experience than the GSG-9. I mean how often does a terrorism situation come about? not much, even in Germany. While the SWAT is called on in many situations during a year. No amount of training can compare to actual experience on the job.


NEXT WEEK:
ATTILA THE HUN VS ALEXANDER THE GREAT!!!

I'm leaning toward Alexander, but i wont be surprised if Attila wins.

[Konata Suzumiya]

As for the SWAT vs GSG-9. Yes the GSG-9 was a good group but having the SWAT win i knew was going to happen. 3 reasons:
1. The SWAT team had slightly better weapons. Having a higher caliber round can make all the difference in a battle. Better stopping power translates to less rounds needing to be used to take out someone and thus more ammo to take out more people.


Lrn2weaponbalistics a higher caliber weapon usually gives the weapon more kick and less accuracy and range. Sure it makes a better hole in the target, but the smaller round will fall into their body and do massive damage to internal organs, why the hell do you think NATO switched from 7.62 to 5.56? Also the G36C was a much smaller assault rifle and much lighter which = more manuverability. Also the GSG almost NEVER uses the remmington because it's a freaking 100 year old shotgun, a lot of GSG uses the Spas or Usas for shotguns. Also the Taser beat the stun ball? My ass, yea let's see them try to rescue a hostage with a taser.


2. SWAT team members bring to the game actual life experience to the team before being chosen. several years training and several years on actual police rounds helps alot.


And GSG goes through much much much more intense training and longer training before being even allowed to be picked, then they must learn and train in EVERY role so that they can pick up a downed squadmates weapon if they are injured. The swat, you take out a sniper no more sniper, GSG you take out a sniper you've still got a squad - 1 of snipers.


3. SWAT overall has more on the job experience than the GSG-9. I mean how often does a terrorism situation come about? not much, even in Germany. While the SWAT is called on in many situations during a year. No amount of training can compare to actual experience on the job.


Fairly often, the GSG is also used in similar situations as the SWAT at times (but those are usually left for the police), but are trained for much more dangerous situations as well, and when they're not doing a job, they're training their asses off.

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

Attila the Hun owned Alexander the Great.

next week is Jesse James vs Al Capone.

My bet is one Al Capone.

[furball]

Attila the Hun owned Alexander the Great.

next week is Jesse James vs Al Capone.

My bet is one Al Capone.

sheesh. at least put the results in spoiler tags. but yeah. attila was 100 years after alexander. what did you expect? =/

[kirant]

sheesh. at least put the results in spoiler tags. but yeah. attila was 100 years after alexander. what did you expect? =/
Apparantly, for a strategist in a skirt to defeat a skilled combatent.

[Forsakn Wrath]

i think they need so choose their weapons better. for example
samurai vs Viking it was really close but if they had used the throwing axe for the Viking's ranger weapon i think they would have won
its the second close match up
Samurai-522
Viking-478

[kirant]

i think they need so choose their weapons better. for example
samurai vs Viking it was really close but if they had used the throwing axe for the Viking's ranger weapon i think they would have won
its the second close match up
Samurai-522
Viking-478
They should have taken into account the Samurai's amazingly better training...but what can you do?

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

Last week the African Zandie worrior beat the Aztecz Jaguar Warrior.

Tonight the Nazi SS takes on the Vietcong.

[furball]

why thank you so much T_L. certainly spike.com nor the newspaper or the kids talking about it at school never told me that today was nazis vs vietcong

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

Nazi SS Beat the Vietcong.

Next week is the Roman Centurian vs the Rajput. the Mysterious ancient warrior of India.

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

the Rajaput beat the Roman Centurian

after a week break, this week will be the Somalian Pirate vs the Colombian Cartel.

[furball]

Tbh, it should be called deadliest arsenal instead of deadliest warrior

[kirant]

Tbh, it should be called deadliest arsenal instead of deadliest warrior

This. This several times over.

I guess remember the MST 3000 Mantra "It's just a show, I should really just relax"

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

the Somalian Pirate beat the Colombian Cartel

Next week is the Persian Immortal vs the Giant Celtic warrior.

[7h3101im4idw0lf]

the Somalian Pirate beat the Colombian Cartel

Next week is the Persian Immortal vs the Giant Celtic warrior.

celts win

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

The Persian Immortal beat the Celt. sorry darkwolf

next week will be the KGB vs the CIA

[furball]

T_L, do we really need you to tell us what's up agianst what? I think if we wanted to know or if we were interested we would already know.

Oh well, the one week break is really annoying since I watch them online and I have to wait 2 weeks after an episode airs to see it online.

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

the CIA beat the KGB. not a shocker since it happened in real life.

next week will be Sun Tzu vs Vlad the Impaler.

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

Opps forgot to update the matches

Vlad beat Sun Tzu

This past Tuesday was the French Musketeer vs the Ming warrior.

The Musketeer PWNED the Ming Warrior

Next week will be the Comanche vs. the Mongol

[furball]

funny. slight spoilers for the SWAT vs GSG9 episode though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdB1rVNJyUI

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

funny. slight spoilers for the SWAT vs GSG9 episode though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdB1rVNJyUI

http://www.chrkcheung.com/images/misc/facepalm.gif

[Forsakn Wrath]

im getting a little frustrated with this show. they always have the equal numbers of weapons to fight one another. to prove they are deadliest the need to use ALL their weapons

the vikings and samurai used a lot more weapons they just left out
and just in the last episode they showed the ming warrior using a poison grenade
but didnt make it a weapon of choice

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

They are using the max number of weapons 1 warrior can carry and still be effective. too many weapons and it'll be more of a hindrance than an advantage.

[furball]

im getting a little frustrated with this show. they always have the equal numbers of weapons to fight one another. to prove they are deadliest the need to use ALL their weapons

the vikings and samurai used a lot more weapons they just left out
and just in the last episode they showed the ming warrior using a poison grenade
but didnt make it a weapon of choice

it's just a show. relax (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MST3KMantra)

[Forsakn Wrath]

it's just a show. relax (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MST3KMantra)

i just think it could be a lot better

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

FINALLY A NEW EPISODE!!!

The Comanche surprised everyone and beat the Mongol Warrior! but just barely

NEXT WEEK IS THE BIGGEST EPISODE YET!

the US Navy Seals vs the Israeli commandos.

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

FINALLY A NEW EPISODE!!!

The Comanche surprised everyone and beat the Mongol Warrior! but just barely

NEXT WEEK IS THE BIGGEST EPISODE YET!

the US Navy Seals vs the Israeli commandos.

[furball]

hey guys, have you noticed
whoever's side gets their weapon sneak peaked wins? Atilla's axe, The rajput's katar, the somali pirate's AK, Vlad's kilij, the comanche's war lance...

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

hey guys, have you noticed
whoever's side gets their weapon sneak peaked wins? Atilla's axe, The rajput's katar, the somali pirate's AK, Vlad's kilij, the comanche's war lance...

they did that last year with the battle scene. The winner was the 1st warrior shown. well except for the very 1st episode that is.

[kirant]

I vote that they have a Pirate vs. Ninja episode...even against the creator's wishes.

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

indeed. the pirate would win though simply because of his guns.

[kirant]

indeed. the pirate would win though simply because of his guns.

Yeah...I forgot this was called Deadliest Arsenal.

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

Yeah...I forgot this was called Deadliest Arsenal.

take that back. the Spartan by far didn't have the deadliest arsenal but used his weapons and skill to become the best ancient warrior in Season 1.

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

Navy Seals beat the Isralli Commandoes, but by the skin of their teeth.

and so ends season 2 of Deadliest warrior. will revive this thread come season 3.

[kirant]

Weird. 404/500 claims I made a post, but isn't visible...let's try this again:
Fata. Hope this works this time:


take that back. the Spartan by far didn't have the deadliest arsenal but used his weapons and skill to become the best ancient warrior in Season 1.

Legitimate concerns exist where they fail to take into account any training, tactics, or anything above how much damage the weapons deal...I don't think they really care about how the weapon works or is wielded.

Easy case: The Spartan's shield. No way in reality does a shield will generate 59% of your kills (382/653). Massive liberaties are taken when generating the results, and that's why I refer to it as Deadliest Arsenal, being as nothing outside damage is taken into account.

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

Weird. 404/500 claims I made a post, but isn't visible...let's try this again:
Fata. Hope this works this time:



Legitimate concerns exist where they fail to take into account any training, tactics, or anything above how much damage the weapons deal...I don't think they really care about how the weapon works or is wielded.

Easy case: The Spartan's shield. No way in reality does a shield will generate 59% of your kills (382/653). Massive liberaties are taken when generating the results, and that's why I refer to it as Deadliest Arsenal, being as nothing outside damage is taken into account.

just so you know Spartans used their shields as both offensive and defensive weapons. They used their shields as a deadly weapon as much as a reliable defense. Also when he went up against the Samurai a majority of his kills came from his spear and not the shield.

[kirant]

just so you know Spartans used their shields as both offensive and defensive weapons. They used their shields as a deadly weapon as much as a reliable defense. Also when he went up against the Samurai a majority of his kills came from his spear and not the shield.

Let me explain it differently: The shield, while awesome, doesn't kill. It stuns, hurts, and incapacitates, but it doesn't kill (Unless you try REALLY REALLY hard and keep bashing the guy over and over). That alone should be a dead giveaway that there are major flaws.

Heck, even TVtropes admits it:
The main complaint also seems to be there's no impartial way compare fighting styles and tactics to each other and that differences in the mindset and tactics of warriors of different cultures and time periods don't seem to be factored in, leaving the battles seeming more like "Deadliest Arsenal" than "Deadliest Warrior".

Also, if you think about it for more than a few minutes, you have to realize there is no unbias way to impliment such defensive abilities or strategy.

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

Let me explain it differently: The shield, while awesome, doesn't kill. It stuns, hurts, and incapacitates, but it doesn't kill (Unless you try REALLY REALLY hard and keep bashing the guy over and over). That alone should be a dead giveaway that there are major flaws.

did you even watch the 1st season? when they tested the shield by hitting a crash test dummy in the head it registered 47Gs. that's nearly 20Gs more than you need to bash a skull in.

[kirant]

did you even watch the 1st season? when they tested the shield by hitting a crash test dummy in the head it registered 47Gs. that's nearly 20Gs more than you need to bash a skull in.

1) You can try aiming for a head, but it's highly difficult to do.
2) 47Gs isn't enough for a lethal hit elsewhere
3) Historically very few actual KILLS were recorded with shields. Quite a few incapacitations were docuemented though.

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

1) You can try aiming for a head, but it's highly difficult to do.
2) 47Gs isn't enough for a lethal hit elsewhere
3) Historically very few actual KILLS were recorded with shields. Quite a few incapacitations were docuemented though.

1. yeah it is, but if you get a hit they're pretty much dead, if not by head trauma then by neck contortion. a blow like that can also break a neck.

2. try again. a hit of only 30Gs to the chest can collapse a lung or even stop the heart.

3. Also keeping records during battle was quite a hard thing to do in ancient times. i'm sure there were plenty of kills with shields.

[kirant]

1. yeah it is, but if you get a hit they're pretty much dead, if not by head trauma then by neck contortion. a blow like that back also break a neck.
2. try again. a hit of only 30Gs to the chest can collapse a lunch or even stop the heart.
3. Also keeping records during battle was quite a hard thing to do in ancient times. i'm sure there were plenty of kills with shields.

1) If you get shot in the head, you die. Yet military tactics is to aim for the center of mass. Gee, I wonder if that works with shields
2) Can but not always. Death occurs at 50-100Gs.
3) Plenty, but there was tonnes of bloodshed. Simply put, it's a cold day in h--- before it gets a majority of kills.

[furball]

Also, if you think about it for more than a few minutes, you have to realize there is no unbias way to impliment such defensive abilities or strategy.

We give the representatives the weapons and make them fight to the death. Might need more people to fill the 1000 battle quota though. Cloning perhaps?

[Malek]

The end all of all this crap.

Step 1: Duck under Shield Bash.

Step 2: Stab

Step 3: Stab again??

Step 4: Moar Stab??

Step 5: Tea Time.

Step 6: Post on Forums.

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

The end all of all this crap.

Step 1: Duck under Shield Bash.

Step 2: Stab

Step 3: Stab again??

Step 4: Moar Stab??

Step 5: Tea Time.

Step 6: Post on Forums.

What if they have on Armor? stab won't work.

[Malek]

What if they have on Armor? stab won't work.

I stab realy realy reaaaly hard.

[kirant]

Forgot people were nerdraging over this show.

Anyways, the reason for the bump: Season 3 of Deadliest Arsenal was announced in January. It features Joan of Arc and Zombies versus Vampires.

I'm sure this will go over well.

Also, if you want to amuse yourself, go to any forum and say something about the Ninja versus Spartan episode. Proceed to laugh at the ensuing stupidity (form both sides).

EDIT - I forgot. If you try doing some background work on Slytherin Studios (which, in hindsight, is funny because it sounds like some Harry Potter fanboy's company), little, if anything, about the company comes up.

[furball]

Forgot people were nerdraging over this show.

Anyways, the reason for the bump: Season 3 of Deadliest Arsenal was announced in January. It features Joan of Arc and Zombies versus Vampires.

I'm sure this will go over well.

Also, if you want to amuse yourself, go to any forum and say something about the Ninja versus Spartan episode. Proceed to laugh at the ensuing stupidity (form both sides).

EDIT - I forgot. If you try doing some background work on Slytherin Studios (which, in hindsight, is funny because it sounds like some Harry Potter fanboy's company), little, if anything, about the company comes up.
Haha! lolwut! How will they test that?

[kirant]

Haha! lolwut! How will they test that?

According to the LA Times, the guest experts will be Steve Niles and Scott Bowen, author of the Vampire Survival Guide, for the vampires, and Max Brooks and Matt Mogk, founder of the Zombie Research Society, for the zombies.
Testing method is still unknown. I assume hilarity will ensue.

Also, according to Wikipedia, Crazy Horse, Genghis Khan, and Hannibal will be included.

Host will be officially changed to Richard Machowicz of Future Weapons. Thank god. Mr. Biomedical Engineer Geoff Desmoulin was starting to hurt my ears.

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

Well. Season 3 starts this Wednesday with a awesome match up, George Washington vs Napoleon Bonaparte.

GO WASHINGTON!!!!

[kirant]

*Snicker*

Well, American homership was on full display. You could tell be the introduction (painting Napoleon as a villain and Washington as a hero), the weapon "advantages" (blatantly ignoring several problems in the American weapons while downplaying the advantages of Napoleon), and other ramble (such as downplaying the fact that many of Washington's strengths were out of battle, never discussing Washington's major losses, not mentioning either Napoleon's troop's elite training as a tangible product in the sim or Washington's extreme conservatism in many battles...or getting flanked several times in battles) made it obvious who they wanted to win.

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

geez kirant is all you do is complain about this show? sheesh.

George Washington BARELY eeked out a win against Napoleon Bonaparte. In terms of percentages this was the closest battle yet in DW history with Washington wining just a little over 1% more battles out of 5000 battles.

Please remember kirant that they now factor in 100 different "x factors" into the new simulation program which they couldn't all cover in the show. More than likely they included battle history and Battle style, in fact they DID talk about battle style in the episode. And about their weapons I do beleive they did mention the lack of weaponry efficacy of the American weapons compared to Napoleon's. Also most of Washington's losses came near the beginning of the war when his army was mostly just rag tag volunteers, it was only later when the US army became more of a coherent fighting force that the battle field became more level with the British. And most of his loses came with a tactical retreat. And they DID mention that Napoleon's troops got some the best military training there was in that day. As for Washington's conservatism it's what helped him prolong the war against Britain and eventually win it. It was Napoleon's inpatients and his thrust for more that ultimately lost him his wars and empire.

Also if you don't believe that being a tyrannical emperor, having a thrust for war and blood, and wanting to concur the entire world "villainous" then what do you think is?

The fact is Napoleon's way of battling was just like the British's in the revolutionary war. Washington's way of battling was a perfect match for them, thus they worked on Napoleon's as well.

Still the match was VERY close. I don't think they were playing favorites here.

here's the battle video. sorry about the quality but the official video of it won't be out for a few weeks.
Pl_MLGMXWUw

But I swore if they showed Napoleon beat Washington in a sword fight I was going to write a very.... anger letter to DW.


BY THE WAY NEXT WEEK'S EPISODE WILL BE Joan of Arc vs. William the Conqueror

[kirant]

geez kirant is all you do is complain about this show? sheesh.
Nah. Some of them are actually really well done. It's just when logic can counter it, it gets silly (ala Ninja vs Spartan...where there is no way anybody could have expected a ninja to win a straight up fight against a heavily armoured opponent...especially when ninjas rely on stealth and ambushing to win...two things no sim will consider) and borderline painful to watch.

Please remember kirant that they now factor in 100 different "x factors" into the new simulation program which they could all cover in the show.
Actually, those hurt. They're arbitrarily assigned values. What I see is an 80 in one stat, you may see as a 75. There is no formula to make them perfect, thus is subject to subconscious bias. As I've said before on discussions over this, there is no way a computer can simulate such intricate details. Anybody with a little military comprehension and computer knowledge knows that.

Also most of Washington's losses came near the beginning of the war when his army was mostly just rag tag volunteers, it was only later when the US army became more of a coherent fighting force that the battle field became more level with the British.
Doesn't explain his mediocre showings when he got tactically thumped, getting flanked and outmanoeuvred. Washington's best asset as a general was his bravery and his figurehead status. He would stand in battle the longest compared to virtually every other general of his era. However, he relied heavily on allies and colleagues for tactical work. He was great off the battlefield, excellent at deception and leadership, but never excelled, claiming defeat in the jaws of victory...heck, one of his most famous moves was a piece of deception.

It was Napoleon's inpatients and his thrust for more that ultimately lost him his wars and empire.
Or, you know, the fact that Russia loves getting saved by impossibly lucky storms. Nobody expects the storm of the century to hit.

Also if you don't believe that being a tyrannical emperor, having a thrust for war and blood, and wanting to concur the entire world "villainous" then what do you think is?
I point to this as more of them, instead of painting it as a two giants colliding battle, make it a "hero" (which they unapolegetically throw on Washington almost every time) against "villain" (no attempt to paint Napoleon kindly) story. Additionally, there's a difference between ambition and bloodthirsty. Finally, I'd argue a man who brought about Jewish emancipation, organized tax codes, and higher education cannot be viewed plainly as a villain. Doing so is an intense simplification.

The fact is Napoleon's way of battling was just like the British's in the revolutionary war. Washington's way of battling was a perfect match for them, thus they worked on Napoleon's as well.
Pub-stomping the rest of Europe qualifies that he alone was way ahead of the curve against them.

Also, Washington rarely headed the hit-and-run warfare that Napoleon struggles against. Those were completed by those he trusted, as he was aware of his shortcomings. And he wasn't special at them either...getting way outclassed by many generals at those tactics.

Still the match was VERY close. I don't think they were playing favorites here.
Editing team sure went really bias. As I stated elsewhere:
Introduce Washington as a hero? Fine. I'd be inclined to agree. Introduce Napoleon as a villain? Unusual. Throw out Washington's major losses? Cherry picking. Hammer home a lost campaign while doing the previous? Blatant bias by people selecting the video clips aired.

I expected Napoleon to lose. There was no way they'd let Washington lose after the Green Beret disaster. Was I expecting the staff to put it on full display though? No. I was either expecting Washington's blunders to be highlighted or Napoleon to be given the same hero reverence to make it feel like to giants duking it out. Instead, what I got was a "hero vs villain" story with the expected ending.

here's the battle video. sorry about the quality but the official video of it won't be out for a few weeks.

But I swore if they showed Napoleon beat Washington in a sword fight I was going to write a very.... anger letter to DW.
This is exactly why I think they had Washington won. I heard they got in a heap of trouble for letting the American Green Beret lose to the Spetsnaz. Letting the American hero get thumped by anyone is risking it again.

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

Nah. Some of them are actually really well done. It's just when logic can counter it, it gets silly (ala Ninja vs Spartan...where there is no way anybody could have expected a ninja to win a straight up fight against a heavily armoured opponent...especially when ninjas rely on stealth and ambushing to win...two things no sim will consider) and borderline painful to watch.


Actually, those hurt. They're arbitrarily assigned values. What I see is an 80 in one stat, you may see as a 75. There is no formula to make them perfect, thus is subject to subconscious bias. As I've said before on discussions over this, there is no way a computer can simulate such intricate details. Anybody with a little military comprehension and computer knowledge knows that.


Doesn't explain his mediocre showings when he got tactically thumped, getting flanked and outmanoeuvred. Washington's best asset as a general was his bravery and his figurehead status. He would stand in battle the longest compared to virtually every other general of his era. However, he relied heavily on allies and colleagues for tactical work. He was great off the battlefield, excellent at deception and leadership, but never excelled, claiming defeat in the jaws of victory...heck, one of his most famous moves was a piece of deception.


Or, you know, the fact that Russia loves getting saved by impossibly lucky storms. Nobody expects the storm of the century to hit.


I point to this as more of them, instead of painting it as a two giants colliding battle, make it a "hero" (which they unapolegetically throw on Washington almost every time) against "villain" (no attempt to paint Napoleon kindly) story. Additionally, there's a difference between ambition and bloodthirsty. Finally, I'd argue a man who brought about Jewish emancipation, organized tax codes, and higher education cannot be viewed plainly as a villain. Doing so is an intense simplification.


Pub-stomping the rest of Europe qualifies that he alone was way ahead of the curve against them.

Also, Washington rarely headed the hit-and-run warfare that Napoleon struggles against. Those were completed by those he trusted, as he was aware of his shortcomings. And he wasn't special at them either...getting way outclassed by many generals at those tactics.


Editing team sure went really bias. As I stated elsewhere:


here's the battle video. sorry about the quality but the official video of it won't be out for a few weeks.


This is exactly why I think they had Washington won. I heard they got in a heap of trouble for letting the American Green Beret lose to the Spetsnaz. Letting the American hero get thumped by anyone is risking it again.

well i'll just let the facts and history speak for themselves. The fact and history is, is that Washington BEAT the British army the most powerful military force at that time. The British may have won more battles. but Washington (and the other American Generals) won the most important battles to win the war. And that's all you need.

[kirant]

well i'll just let the facts and history speak for themselves. The fact and history is, is that Washington BEAT the British army the most powerful military force at that time. The British may have won more battles. but Washington (and the other American Generals) won the most important battles to win the war. And that's all you need.
Actually...facts are that they won with ample help from the French and aid in training from others. How much of it they won on their own is a debate.

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

Actually...facts are that they won with ample help from the French and aid in training from others. How much of it they won on their own is a debate.

Just goes to show how well Washington is able to get help and resources he needs to fight a battle.

[Konata_is_Mine]

Just goes to show how well Washington is able to get help and resources he needs to fight a battle.

Washington would have lost us the war if the French hadn't stepped in....
Ever read 1776?

[kirant]

Just goes to show how well Washington is able to get help and resources he needs to fight a battle.

Actually it reads the opposite - Washington, despite all the effort, dedication, and resourcefulness that is inherent in his legacy, was on the losing end. The French hatred of the British saved him.

[Konata_is_Mine]

Actually it reads the opposite - Washington, despite all the effort, dedication, and resourcefulness that is inherent in his legacy, was on the losing end. The French hatred of the British saved him.
QFT.

[kirant]

Obvious result was obvious. Plate mail and gunpowder made it a guarantee (though also naming William the Conqueror as a bloodthirsty man also hinted who would win). Wish they'd just drop the famous person part of it though...at least it's less silly than Sun Tzu fighting.

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

Joan of Arc beat William the Conqueror

Even though Joan had much less fighting experience than William, her 300 year advanced weapons technology gave her the edge needed to barely pull off a victory. and that's the only thing that saved her butt from losing.

here's teh video of the fight. again sorry for the quality but the offical video won't be out for a few weeks yet.

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NEXT WEEK WILL BE THE AMERICAN ARMY RANGERS vs. THE NORTH KOREAN SPECIAL OPS.

[furball]

*sigh* Since I have nothing really better to do, I might as well watch this. Be sure to take it with a bit of a grain of salt though. And T_L, don't spoil episodes. People may not have watched everything you have so please mark who wins and all that in spoilers.

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

ok i'll have to put the results in spoilers then

WOW!!! just wow. this was so epically close. In fact it is the closest results in DW's history. Even closer than the Green Barret vs the Spetznas.

The American Army Rangers BARELY defeat the N.Korean Special Ops Forces in the closest match up ever!

here's the only video i could find of the match up. Again sorry for the crappy quality but the official web video won't be out for a few weeks yet just like the others

sIX3_BOPd9U

Next week will be Hannibal vs Genghis Khan.

and confirmed for a later episode is Pol Pot vs. Saddam Hussein

[kirant]

ok i'll have to put the results in spoilers then

WOW!!! just wow. this was so epically close. In fact it is the closest results in DW's history. Even closer than the Green Barret vs the Spetznas.

The American Army Rangers BARELY defeat the N.Korean Special Ops Forces in the closest match up ever!

here's the only video i could find of the match up. Again sorry for the crappy quality but the official web video won't be out for a few weeks yet just like the others

sIX3_BOPd9U

Next week will be Hannibal vs Genghis Khan.

and confirmed for a later episode is Pol Pot vs. Saddam Hussein
It was a fail episode...making that many assumptions throwing in favour of North Korea, even a close result would mean that the Green Barret are the "Deadlier warrior"

[Hiyori's-Boyfriend]

I like this show... But I agree with Spoony's rant

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

It was a fail episode...making that many assumptions throwing in favour of North Korea, even a close result would mean that the Green Barret are the "Deadlier warrior"

how the hell were they assuming anything here? If the Korean war ever starts up again it's be on the Korean Peninsula.

[kirant]

how the hell were they assuming anything here? If the Korean war ever starts up again it's be on the Korean Peninsula.

The hypothesis supplied by the show is "if [x] and [y] ever fought, who'd win?". They arbitrarily (for the sake of making more likely to hit home), decided to throw it in a given location, where all other fights were given a neutral stage. The "barely beats out" is very pointless now, as attacking forces suffer 2-1 casualties normally (pointing that the Rangers are WAY better as a force). Additionally, training is barely, if at all, pointed on. The North Korean army as a whole is a paper tiger. Even Russian or Chinese forces are better trained. Add these up and the closeness in result feels pointless and only shows that the Rangers are much better.

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that the N.Korean forces are a paper tiger at all. after all what money the country has goes into their military. And sure russia and China have better forces but N.Korean forces are mostly trained by China. Plus they get most of their military arms from China as well.

Though I will agree that the the N.Korean forces aren't as powerful as they let on.

[kirant]

I would go so far as to say that the N.Korean forces are a paper tiger at all. after all what money the country has goes into their military.
That's the thing. They don't really have money at all. They spend a huge % on military, but it doesn't help when the weapons are frequently 20-30 years obsolete in an environment where coolest toy helps a lot.

And sure russia and China have better forces but N.Korean forces are mostly trained by China. Plus they get most of their military arms from China as well.
You rarely have cases of the trainee getting better than the trainer on their own. Additionally, China gives outdated arms. Really outdated.

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

That's the thing. They don't really have money at all. They spend a huge % on military, but it doesn't help when the weapons are frequently 20-30 years obsolete in an environment where coolest toy helps a lot.

which is why you see the Claymore mine outperform the box mine.

[Konata Suzumiya]

That's the thing. They don't really have money at all. They spend a huge % on military, but it doesn't help when the weapons are frequently 20-30 years obsolete in an environment where coolest toy helps a lot.


I especially loved how much they glorified the AKM, practicing at extreme close quarters while claiming it to be a medium range weapon. The thing is reliable, but that's about all it has on more modern weapons (especially since it still uses the very outdated 7.62x39).

[Konata_is_Mine]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that the N.Korean forces are a paper tiger at all. after all what money the country has goes into their military. And sure russia and China have better forces but N.Korean forces are mostly trained by China. Plus they get most of their military arms from China as well.

Though I will agree that the the N.Korean forces aren't as powerful as they let on.

The North Koreans have numbers, and zealotry, that's about it.

[kirant]

Obvious result was obvious...when this can be said about you, you're doing something right
http://c0573862.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/1/0/14038/148391/Smithsonian_Khan_640.png

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

True. after watchign the episode the results was obvious.

I was actually thinking that Hannibal would put up a better fight but after seeing the results of the armor tests it was obvious who would win this match up.

here's the video if you want to watch it, but even for me this "battle scene" was pretty badly done.

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well the results of this one surprised me a bit.

Saddam beat Pol Pot.

Even though i was expecting to see Saddam win I was beginning to change my mind after seeing how more powerful Pol Pot's weapons were.

here's the video though it was started late. what happened at the beginning was Pol Pot's men threw a Chinese Stick Grenade and killed 2 of Saddam's Men, it picks up from that point.

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next weeks episode is an odd match up in my opinion given that one has a 40+ year advanced gun technology on his side.

Teddy Roosevelt vs Lawrence of Arabia.

[furball]

Any idea where you can watch all the full episodes online?

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

spike TV .com

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

yesterday's results were a little surprising even though i was hoping for this outcome.

Teddy Roosevelt beat Lawrence of Arabia. I was surprised with this because I thought at 1st that Lawrence had the better machine gun, but the good ol' reliable Gatling gun proved to be much more deadly and accurate. The battle was still close though.

here's the video
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Next week will be Ivan the Terrible vs Hernan Cortes

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

thanks to a slightly better mental state....
Hernan Cortes beat Ivan teh Terrible.

here's the video

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Next week will Be Poncho Vera vs Crazy Horse.

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

Not surprised by this result

Pancho Villa beat Crazy Horse. Having better ligistices helps tremidiously.

Here's the battle

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Next week will be a double feature season fanally. The French Forgien Legion vs the Gurkhas

AND THEN Zobies vs Vampires! yeah your heard me. My prediction is that the vampires are going to win for the simple fact that Vampires can heal them selves and are very hard to kill while the Zombies can be killed.

[Tsukasa's_Lover]

Good season fanally. though i finally got one wrong.

The Gurkhas beat the French Forgin Legion

gplF-GKkeGA



And in a 63 to 1 ratio battle, the vampire beat the Zombies!

iiqGlV5DFws

[Forsakn Wrath]

i watched the vampires vs zombies and although i was disappointed i was happy in the end.

zombies losing by less then 1% is close. i had a problem with the vampire being 6x stronger
then a fit athlete. 3x that or 4 normal human strength would of been more believable. that,
and they didnt increase the zombies speed past 3mph zombies, can run. though someone could
argue thats more infected, not zombies. having a special or mutated zombies would of been awesome XD

[kirant]

i watched the vampires vs zombies and although i was disappointed i was happy in the end.

zombies losing by less then 1% is close. i had a problem with the vampire being 6x stronger
then a fit athlete. 3x that or 4 normal human strength would of been more believable. that,
and they didnt increase the zombies speed past 3mph zombies, can run. though someone could
argue thats more infected, not zombies. having a special or mutated zombies would of been awesome XD


The fact that the scaling is arbitrary and not near a nice number (63 to 1) was a clear indication they ran the test multiple times to get a near 50/50 result. Quite honestly, it increases my suspicion that they alter the "X-Factors" as needed until they get a result that's close and either let random chance take over, or decide a winner beforehand.

[Forsakn Wrath]

ik and they have improved by running the x factors and increase it from 1k to 5k. it needed to be 63 to 1 cause theres no way a single zombie could beat a vampire, the guy said that himself. I just think adding more speed to a zombie would of helped. they have no muscle restriction so i thought that could give them a jogging speed. im still fine with the result. i just wanted zombies to win is all

[kirant]

ik and they have improved by running the x factors and increase it from 1k to 5k. it needed to be 63 to 1 cause theres no way a single zombie could beat a vampire, the guy said that himself. I just think adding more speed to a zombie would of helped. they have no muscle restriction so i thought that could give them a jogging speed. im still fine with the result. i just wanted zombies to win is all

Yeah, but what I'm saying is that the arbitrary value of 63 shows that they did multiple sims and tried to mathamatically deduce what number would make it extremely close. You know they were going to give extra zombies anyways, but the fact that it's so unusual (as oppose to 50/25/100/10) shows that they played around with the numbers until it was THAT close.