Star Wars

[Freeman]

Do we have any other Star Wars fans out there?

I loved all 6 movies, even more so I loved the Expanded Universe formed off of the movies.

My favorite is Episode 4.

[Niko Jims]

Star Wars is amazing. IMO The Empire Strikes back was my favorite with the battle of Hoth.

[Swizzle]

Phantom Menace ftw!!!!!! xD

[Freeman]

Phantom Menace ftw!!!!!! xD


XD

You know what sucks?....I can perfectly imitate Jar Jar Binks DX

[Hammy]

Empire Strikes Back

[konatafan8765437]

Saw all 6 movies... liked the 3rd best.

[Beyond Birthday]

I think best is Revenge of the Sith, because my favorite character is General Grievous.

http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt10/VaiQQ/GeneralGrievous-WellArmed.jpg

[Swizzle]

Phantom Menace ftw!!!!!! xD


XD

You know what sucks?....I can perfectly imitate Jar Jar Binks DX


That's awesome! JarJar is hillarious methinks!

[Konata Suzumiya]

Phantom Menace ftw!!!!!! xD


XD

You know what sucks?....I can perfectly imitate Jar Jar Binks DX


That's awesome! JarJar is hillarious methinks!


Really? O_O


I voted Return of the jedi, nothing better than the great Vader scene

[Swizzle]

hehe, I like all the Star Wars movies, but I like episodes I II and III better than the others because I think there's a lot more depth to them.

[Konata Suzumiya]

hehe, I like all the Star Wars movies, but I like episodes I II and III better than the others because I think there's a lot more depth to them.


Have you played KotOR I / II, and or planning on getting Star Wars The Old Republic?

[Swizzle]

I haven't played KotoOR, but i really want to, and I do plan on getting tOR

[Konata Suzumiya]

I haven't played KotoOR, but i really want to, and I do plan on getting tOR


!!! XD Woot we have to play the story in a party (there is 2 player team ups for the story confirmed)!!!! lol

[Swizzle]

I haven't played KotoOR, but i really want to, and I do plan on getting tOR


!!! XD Woot we have to play the story in a party (there is 2 player team ups for the story confirmed)!!!! lol


AWESOME!!!!!!!!!
That'll be a ton of fun! The game is looking really promising! xD

Yay for Co-op! =)

[Konata Suzumiya]

+1 to any one who gets this without looking it up...

There is no emotion ______________
There is no ignorance ______________
There is no passion ______________
There is no chaos__________________
There is no death ______________

(fill in the blanks)

[Swizzle]

I have no idea =(

[Konata Suzumiya]

It's the Jedi code by the way (Jedi FTW)
The corrupted and hateful sith code states the foul lie that,

Peace is a lie there is only passion,
through passion I gain strength,
through strength I gain power,
through power I gain victory,
through victory my chains are broken,
the force shall free me.

It has little meaning and is full of the corrupt teachings of the dark side.

[Swizzle]

Hehe, I know the Sith code very well.

I don't know the Jedi code though.
I know the Sith code because of the Darth Bane books xD (my favorite star wars books)

[Konata Suzumiya]

The rule of two was the only thing that the sith gave much thought into, even then the worst of the worst dis-obeyed it (sidious for taking on Maul while under Plageuis, Dooku for a few apprentices, Jacen Solo for a few things, and the rule of 1 destroyed the sith again *epic facepalm* for the failure that ensued after that).

[Swizzle]

That's true, but Darth Bane was a genious as was his apprentice.

[konatafan8765437]

+1 to any one who gets this without looking it up...

There is no emotion ______________
There is no ignorance ______________
There is no passion ______________
There is no chaos__________________
There is no death ______________

(fill in the blanks)


I think I know the last one!
There is no death there is only the force.
I heard that somewhere a long time ago...

[Konata Suzumiya]

+1 to any one who gets this without looking it up...

There is no emotion ______________
There is no ignorance ______________
There is no passion ______________
There is no chaos__________________
There is no death, there is only the force

(fill in the blanks)


correct, I'll start to fill in the blanks as people get them lol

[Droote]

Funny, I just was thinking to myself just yesterday which SW film is the best. It is really hard, all the three original ones are so good! Mmm... perhaps Return of the Jedi?

[Swizzle]

+1 to any one who gets this without looking it up...

There is no emotion ______________
There is no ignorance ______________
There is no passion ______________
There is no chaos__________________
There is no death, there is only the force

(fill in the blanks)


correct, I'll start to fill in the blanks as people get them lol


I'm gonna guess at one.

There is no passion, only peace?

[Konata Suzumiya]

+1 to any one who gets this without looking it up...

There is no emotion ______________
There is no ignorance ______________
There is no passion ______________
There is no chaos__________________
There is no death, there is only the force

(fill in the blanks)


correct, I'll start to fill in the blanks as people get them lol


I'm gonna guess at one.

There is no passion, only peace?


wrong but peace is one of them

[Swizzle]

emotion/peace?

[Konata Suzumiya]

+1 to any one who gets this without looking it up...

There is no emotion there is peace
There is no ignorance ______________
There is no passion ______________
There is no chaos__________________
There is no death, there is only the force

(fill in the blanks)


correct

[Swizzle]

Peace is a lie there is only passion,
through passion I gain strength,
through strength I gain power,
through power I gain victory,
through victory my chains are broken,
the force shall free me.

That's about all I know. I'm a Sith because I welcome emotions.

[Konata Suzumiya]

Then you are lost

[Swizzle]

You are lost because you are blinded by the Jedi ways.
You don't know the beauty of being a Sith.

[Droote]

Peace is a lie there is only passion,
through passion I gain strength,
through strength I gain power,
through power I gain victory,
through victory my chains are broken,
the force shall free me.

That's about all I know. I'm a Sith because I welcome emotions.


Emo...

[Konata Suzumiya]

You are lost because you are blinded by the Jedi ways.
You don't know the beauty of being a Sith.


The dark side only corrupts, the only ones blinded are the sith by their own hatred and lust for power.

[Swizzle]

The Sith are not driven by hatred. Rather, by emotion itsself!
And emotion is what makes people human! And the Sith lust for power
because it is required for their survival because without it, the jedi
would just come over and kill them because they have different view points.
The Jedi are like machines because they toss out all emotion. The jedi are weak
because they are emotionless robots that follow orders like dogs!

[Konata Suzumiya]

Only a fool would think jedi expel emotion! The jedi do let emotion drive them but they control it so that they are above it. Only a fool would blindly follow orders, but it takes the same fool to ignore orders. The sith believe that power and hatred can be used to achieve victory, instead it drives them to betrayal dooming themselves. The jedi are pure, the sith are corrupt. As a true jedi would say fear leads to sadness, sadness leads to frustration, frustration leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to the dark side.

[Droote]

As a true jedi would say fear leads to sadness, sadness leads to frustration, frustration leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to the dark side.


Propaganda.

[Konata Suzumiya]

As a true jedi would say fear leads to sadness, sadness leads to frustration, frustration leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to the dark side.


Propaganda.


Then may I ask, which side do you take, as you seem to disregard both?

[Swizzle]

Only a fool would think jedi expel emotion! The jedi do let emotion drive them but they control it so that they are above it. Only a fool would blindly follow orders, but it takes the same fool to ignore orders. The sith believe that power and hatred can be used to achieve victory, instead it drives them to betrayal dooming themselves. The jedi are pure, the sith are corrupt. As a true jedi would say fear leads to sadness, sadness leads to frustration, frustration leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to the dark side.


The jedi say that because they don't want to admit to their students that there is more to the sith than they think.

I'll admit that there have been some retarted sith, namely the ones in the movies, but there have been an equal number of retarted jedi.

In the end, both sides balance one another out so that no 1 side becomes too powerful and they keep each other on their feet. Without the Sith, the Jedi would cease to exist and vice versa. So really, both sides are right. The jedi won't defeat the sith out of some self-righteousness and the sith won't defeat the jedi because they're just too much fun. (definately ripped that last sentence from the Dark Knight).

[Konata Suzumiya]

Only a fool would think jedi expel emotion! The jedi do let emotion drive them but they control it so that they are above it. Only a fool would blindly follow orders, but it takes the same fool to ignore orders. The sith believe that power and hatred can be used to achieve victory, instead it drives them to betrayal dooming themselves. The jedi are pure, the sith are corrupt. As a true jedi would say fear leads to sadness, sadness leads to frustration, frustration leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to the dark side.


The jedi say that because they don't want to admit to their students that there is more to the sith than they think.

I'll admit that there have been some retarted sith, namely the ones in the movies, but there have been an equal number of retarted jedi.

In the end, both sides balance one another out so that no 1 side becomes too powerful and they keep each other on their feet. Without the Sith, the Jedi would cease to exist and vice versa. So really, both sides are right. The jedi won't defeat the sith out of some self-righteousness and the sith won't defeat the jedi because they're just too much fun. (definately ripped that last sentence from the Dark Knight).


Your hate towards the jedi blinds you. As I said the jedi are pure, the sith are im balance. Your statement as they could not exist without eachother is clearly false proved by Jedi Grandmaster Luke after he defeated the last of the sith (Palpatines clones). If they jedi would hunt the sith they would be blinded by their hatred, turning to the dark side themselves. Anakin brought balance to the force when he finally destroyed the last of the sith ending the rule of two bringing balance to the force. There is no way to use the dark side for good for it corrupts and weakens.

[Swizzle]

Without the Sith, there is no reason for the Jedi to exist except to impose on the established government.

Your theory seems to be that there would be peace without the dark side, therefore warriors would be unneccesary and the Jedi would die out.

And your theory that the Dark Side cannot be used for good is false. The Sith want peace just as much as the Jedi do. They just have a different way of achieving that goal. The Sith finally have rule over the land in SW Episode 4 and the Jedi disrupt the peace by being rebels and trying to overthrow the world that had been established.

[Konata Suzumiya]

Without the Sith, there is no reason for the Jedi to exist except to impose on the established government.

Your theory seems to be that there would be peace without the dark side, therefore warriors would be unneccesary and the Jedi would die out.

And your theory that the Dark Side cannot be used for good is false. The Sith want peace just as much as the Jedi do. They just have a different way of achieving that goal. The Sith finally have rule over the land in SW Episode 4 and the Jedi disrupt the peace by being rebels and trying to overthrow the world that had been established.


There would never have been a rebellion if the sith weren't corrupt. Everything about the sith is evil and hatred. The jedi have existed and protected the republic for twice as long as the sith have even existed. When the Rakata were defeated the republic was formed, and the good jedi vowed to protect them so something as evil as the infinite empire would never rule again. Luke was nearly corrupted by Palpatines clone, it took Leia to bring him back. Jacen Solo thought he could use dark side powers with good intentions look how that turned out. Even without sith there are always war mongering threats, the Mandalorians are a great example. The jedi bring no im balance to the force, evidence in this is the fact that the light side does not corrupt it only accepts. While the darkside brings hatred and destruction in its wake.

[Swizzle]

"There would never have been a rebellion if the sith weren't corrupt."

That isn't necessarily true. The Jedi like taking things into their own hands.
And even some Jedi are corrupt. It is human nature to want power, after all.
Most Jedi rise above that, but not all.

And Darth Bane wasn't evil. Darth Bane believed in ending the war finally, but after
many generations people disobeyed his teachings and the war continued.
Also, Sith don't kill just for the sake of killing. They only kill what is necessary because
people they kill may be of use some day. Darth Bane was not corrupt. He has a vision in his
eyes and he strived to achieve it. Jedi can't do that because the Jedi code is strict and rules must
sometimes be broken to achieve a goal.

Edit: This debate is never going to end. We're both too stubborn to give up.

[Konata Suzumiya]

There is no emotion there is peace
There is no ignorance there is knowlage
There is no passion there is serenity
There is no chaos there is harmony
There is no death, there is only the force

[Swizzle]

You mean that Jedi don't like killing other intelligent life forms.
Jedi gladly kill anything else.

The Jedi code forbids emotion, such as love.
People that are part of the dark side are allowed to love, because love is an emotion,
and probably the most powerful one at that.

And this sentence you wrote contradicts itsself: "It is never necessary to kill, only when it is the last resort."
Your sentence says that it is necessary to kill if it's the last resort.
That's how the sith feel as well.

And you always bring Palpatine into this.
Palpatine was a complete moron! Darth Bane was not.
End of story. Palpatine broke Bane's rule of Two, which led to the destruction of the Sith,
and he did it through ways in which the Sith would be frowned upon.

[Konata Suzumiya]

You mean that Jedi don't like killing other intelligent life forms.
Jedi gladly kill anything else.

The Jedi code forbids emotion, such as love.
People that are part of the dark side are allowed to love, because love is an emotion,
and probably the most powerful one at that.

And this sentence you wrote contradicts itsself: "It is never necessary to kill, only when it is the last resort."
Your sentence says that it is necessary to kill if it's the last resort.
That's how the sith feel as well.

And you always bring Palpatine into this.
Palpatine was a complete moron! Darth Bane was not.
End of story. Palpatine broke Bane's rule of Two, which led to the destruction of the Sith,
and he did it through ways in which the Sith would be frowned upon.


Palpatine broke the rule once, which did not bring the end of the sith (he would have killed Plaguas either way) That sentence simply means you should not simply kill in offence only in defence if there is no other choice. You must not see the true meaning of the code. The code demands control over emotions because they lead to the darkside. You are allowed to love but you must control it and not let it control you. Love is a gateway emotion love----sadness/fear------frustration----anger----hate-----and finally the darkside. I assume you mean droids or beasts such as Rancors. For the first one must have life for it to die / be killed. The second, is a beast tamed to attack on command it no longer has a life of its own, wild beast attack out of anger with no end sometimes there is no other option.

Bane may have created the rule but it was Palpatine who finished its purpose and eraditicated the jedi. Palpatine was also the most powerful sith in his prime (stated by George himself), much more powerful than Bane could have dreamed possible.

[Swizzle]

Those beasts have families of their own and the Jedi are just as bad as the Sith with killing those. But I believe the Jedi kill more of them because the users of the Dark Side find a way to tame beasts.

And if Jedi are allowed to love, how come Anakin didn't want anyone to find out that Padme was pregnant and that they were lovers?

And I fail to see how love leads to fear...

[Konata Suzumiya]

Those beasts have families of their own and the Jedi are just as bad as the Sith with killing those. But I believe the Jedi kill more of them because the users of the Dark Side find a way to tame beasts.

And if Jedi are allowed to love, how come Anakin didn't want anyone to find out that Padme was pregnant and that they were lovers?

And I fail to see how love leads to fear...


The jedi do not seek to kill that is very different, if the beasts left the jedi alone they would never intentially harm them. The dark side uses torturing techniques such as lightning, and by taming them they only turn them into mindless machines no better than droids.

The jedi love but they do not lust. They control their love meaning they do not let it get the best of them and run away. Anakin did.

Love leads to fear in the same way frustration lead to anger, you fear for your loved one, if they get in trouble that fear leads to anger and so on, you seem to know Anakin he is a great example of this chain.

[Swizzle]

I do not know any Jedi that love other than anakin, and through his route throught the dark side he brought balance to the force.
No Jedi have significant others other than Anakin,
and I finished Clannad season 1.

[Konata Suzumiya]

I do not know any Jedi that love other than anakin, and through his route throught the dark side he brought balance to the force.
No Jedi have significant others other than Anakin,
and I finished Clannad season 1.


He had fallen to the darkside and almost destroyed the balance by killing the jedi, then he brought it back by killing the emperor. The jedi love all living things, they may have people they love more than others but they control that love instead of it controlling them. By controlling emotion they allow others to think they have none, when in reality it is only that they have these emotions in check. Anakin could not understand this.

[Swizzle]

I believe you can make it known that you love someone whilst keeping emotions in check.

And I still say that both are needed to keep a balance in the world.
I mean, think about our world.
If there was no darkness in people's hearts, think how boring life would be.
There would be no good movie plots, the media would have nothing to talk about,
and Clannad probably wouldn't exist. It is that darkness that is required to learn from
and rise above so that you may know what light is.

If there wasn't the dark side, the jedi would have nothing to learn from and try to rise above.
They would just exist as users of a useless power. You were talking about the Mandelorians earlier
and how the jedi would still have to deal with them. Well, every living creature is in tune with the force,
and they get their bad thoughts from the dark side. Mandelorians are living creatures and if they act to
harm, then that must come from the dark side. So without the Dark Side, the Light Side would have
no reason to exist.

Wow it's getting late! My posts are growing with every second lol

[Konata Suzumiya]

I believe you can make it known that you love someone whilst keeping emotions in check.

And I still say that both are needed to keep a balance in the world.
I mean, think about our world.
If there was no darkness in people's hearts, think how boring life would be.
There would be no good movie plots, the media would have nothing to talk about,
and Clannad probably wouldn't exist. It is that darkness that is required to learn from
and rise above so that you may know what light is.

If there wasn't the dark side, the jedi would have nothing to learn from and try to rise above.
They would just exist as users of a useless power. You were talking about the Mandelorians earlier
and how the jedi would still have to deal with them. Well, every living creature is in tune with the force,
and they get their bad thoughts from the dark side. Mandelorians are living creatures and if they act to
harm, then that must come from the dark side. So without the Dark Side, the Light Side would have
no reason to exist.

Wow it's getting late! My posts are growing with every second lol


I do not think you understand the Madalorians. They do not drive from hate only from the thrill of the battle. In a way they are close to the dark but they do not seek to kill, only to have a challange whatever that may be. The light does not corrupt therefore it is pure, the dark corrupts therfore it is impure. Without the dark there is balance. Without the dark the jedi would continue to meditate and study the force while protecting the republic and keeping it secure from any threat.

(Also don't bring real life logic into a star wars debate, In real life there is no "Good" or "Evil" only different view points. Lucas said himself that real life logic does not exist in Star Wars as there is good and evil. As you can see the logic is very differnt a.k.a. Science fiction)

[Swizzle]

I like tieing things in to other things to help prove a point.

And you said that there is balance without the Dark Side.
Well, #1, The Dark Side doesn't cease to exist even if the Sith are gone.
#2, how is only light balanced whatsoever? The Dark balances out the light
so that one body of power does not become too powerful.
(And even though you say not to use real life references in this, I'm still going to when the opportunity presents itsself. It makes it easier to prove a point!)

And if the Mandelorians don't seek to kill, why would the jedi ever have to worry about them if they don't seek to kill either?

Edit: Also, for the most part I understand your point, but I just love arguing way too much and I never get a chance to argue so I take the opportunity whenever I can xD

[Konata Suzumiya]

I like tieing things in to other things to help prove a point.

And you said that there is balance without the Dark Side.
Well, #1, The Dark Side doesn't cease to exist even if the Sith are gone.
#2, how is only light balanced whatsoever? The Dark balances out the light
so that one body of power does not become too powerful.
(And even though you say not to use real life references in this, I'm still going to when the opportunity presents itsself. It makes it easier to prove a point!)

And if the Mandelorians don't seek to kill, why would the jedi ever have to worry about them if they don't seek to kill either?

Edit: Also, for the most part I understand your point, but I just love arguing way too much and I never get a chance to argue so I take the opportunity whenever I can xD


(for Madalorians either wiki it or play Kotor 1 & 2)

1. That is why the jedi must continue to protect the republic of any looming threat
2. Because as I said the light accepts, the dark corrupts with hatred and other emotion. The Dark kills and tortures it brings despair, the light brings balance. It has been tested by many jedi. They attempted to use the dark side for good means, they were corrupted and turned to the dark side. There is no balancing both, the light is not an extreme, you can embrace it if you wish, the dark is not a choice it is corruption at its best turning the host into a shell of their former self
(And yes I do love the light vs. dark debate, I've been in a few myself)

[Swizzle]

Hehe, all I know about the Mandalorians is what they say about em on the swtor site.

But the Dark only corrupted Jedi who tried to use it for good because they weren't meant to use the Dark,
that's why they're Jedi. And in my mind the light is an extreme. If there is no evil or corruption withing the light, then it is at an opposite end of the spectrum as the dark side, therefore making it an extreme.
And you always talk about hate and corruption, but that is not all the Dark is. The Dark feeds off of raw EMOTION, not necessarily HATE! And you can't use the Dark for good because that isn't what it's meant to do. The Dark is meant to protect yourself and the ones you love through any means available.
Those who use the Dark side are not necessarily evil. And it is possible to come back out of the Dark if you want as Anakin shows us. Anaking had good intentions of using the Dark Side and the reason he didn't isn't because of the Dark Side itsself, but because of Palpatine's lies. Anakin would have saved Padme if he could, but because Palpatine said he killed her, he felt it was pointless to go back to the jedi, therefore residing with the idiotic Palpatine.

[Konata Suzumiya]

Hehe, all I know about the Mandalorians is what they say about em on the swtor site.

But the Dark only corrupted Jedi who tried to use it for good because they weren't meant to use the Dark,
that's why they're Jedi. And in my mind the light is an extreme. If there is no evil or corruption withing the light, then it is at an opposite end of the spectrum as the dark side, therefore making it an extreme.
And you always talk about hate and corruption, but that is not all the Dark is. The Dark feeds off of raw EMOTION, not necessarily HATE! And you can't use the Dark for good because that isn't what it's meant to do. The Dark is meant to protect yourself and the ones you love through any means available.
Those who use the Dark side are not necessarily evil. And it is possible to come back out of the Dark if you want as Anakin shows us. Anaking had good intentions of using the Dark Side and the reason he didn't isn't because of the Dark Side itsself, but because of Palpatine's lies. Anakin would have saved Padme if he could, but because Palpatine said he killed her, he felt it was pointless to go back to the jedi, therefore residing with the idiotic Palpatine.


Only sith deal in absolute
Padme would not have returned to Anakin's corrupted self. Luke was one who experienced the corruption of the dark side personally he realizes it corrupts and turns people away. The Dark seek power because of this corruption, it makes them think they are too good for what they already have. If you cannot use the dark for good, then it proves my point in that the dark side corrupts one through power and hate. It has been proven that force lightning is a force power that is specifically driven through hate, as well as the force choke. These powers do not disable through simple means as force push or throw, they torture the receiver instead of just a quick dis ability. All emotions eventually lead to hate, by abusing them you are only feeding anger and hate. One cannot simply turn from the dark they must be turned from it and have a strong resistance at that. Vader had told his son it was too late, that was his explanation of the corruptness. It took, Luke (family) to turn Vader, and Leia (family) to turn Luke it is not as simple as you make it out to be. The Dark isn't protection it is assault, it is offensive hateful power that torture the reciever as I explained earlier.

[Swizzle]

Haha, I love that first quote.
Sometimes the absolute is necessary.
And I disagree when you say all emotion leads to hate.
I feel emotion all the time, but hate is never one of those emotions.
I do gain power through my emotions as well as wisdom though.
Being part of the Dark doesn't force you to hate. But if you are weak-minded then it will
consume you.

There was a time when the Sith and Jedi weren't too different.
Have you ever heard of the Brotherhood of Darkness?
It was like the Jedi order, only a Sith version. All the leaders in it shared power
and led it like brothers, and they were weak, just like the Jedi. Darth Bane realized this
and decided to teach them a lesson they would never forget.

Darth Bane grew up without even realizing the Darkness within him.
He enrolled in the Sith army just to escape the horrible life he was living in the mines.
A life that would get him nowhere. He didn't even know he could use the force till he started
fighting in the army as a normal soldier and he excelled. He was one of the best out there.
Then he realized he could use the force and they trained him.
He spent most of his time in the Library reading and gaining knowledge.
Doesn't sound too evil, does it? It doesn't sound like he's corrupt. He is just trying to obtain
knowledge and figure out why things are the way they are. He becomes a mastermind.
And he points out the flaws in the established order in a way that nobody would ever forget.
Darth Bane didn't kill for no reason. There was always a rationale behind it when he did kill.
He saved the Sith from extinction from the Jedi by himself!
Then he established the rule of two and took on his own apprentice who he taught everything he knows to.

I don't see anything corrupt or evil that he did. He simply lived his life in a way that he wanted
and great things came from it.

The Jedi kill just as the Sith do. The Jedi don't go looking for fights, but will kill what is in there way if there is no other way. The Sith do the same. The Sith kill only when absolutely necessary. The Sith don't like waste. They let people live freely so long as they don't do anything to harm the Sith.

If the Jedi didn't go trying to defeat the Sith, I do not think that the Sith would worry about the Jedi.
The Sith are more about obtaining knowledge than going around aimlessly killing.

Edit: Holy crap I wrote a lot!

[Konata Suzumiya]

Haha, I love that first quote.
Sometimes the absolute is necessary.
And I disagree when you say all emotion leads to hate.
I feel emotion all the time, but hate is never one of those emotions.
I do gain power through my emotions as well as wisdom though.
Being part of the Dark doesn't force you to hate. But if you are weak-minded then it will
consume you.

There was a time when the Sith and Jedi weren't too different.
Have you ever heard of the Brotherhood of Darkness?
It was like the Jedi order, only a Sith version. All the leaders in it shared power
and led it like brothers, and they were weak, just like the Jedi. Darth Bane realized this
and decided to teach them a lesson they would never forget.

Darth Bane grew up without even realizing the Darkness within him.
He enrolled in the Sith army just to escape the horrible life he was living in the mines.
A life that would get him nowhere. He didn't even know he could use the force till he started
fighting in the army as a normal soldier and he excelled. He was one of the best out there.
Then he realized he could use the force and they trained him.
He spent most of his time in the Library reading and gaining knowledge.
Doesn't sound too evil, does it? It doesn't sound like he's corrupt. He is just trying to obtain
knowledge and figure out why things are the way they are. He becomes a mastermind.
And he points out the flaws in the established order in a way that nobody would ever forget.
Darth Bane didn't kill for no reason. There was always a rationale behind it when he did kill.
He saved the Sith from extinction from the Jedi by himself!
Then he established the rule of two and took on his own apprentice who he taught everything he knows to.

I don't see anything corrupt or evil that he did. He simply lived his life in a way that he wanted
and great things came from it.

The Jedi kill just as the Sith do. The Jedi don't go looking for fights, but will kill what is in there way if there is no other way. The Sith do the same. The Sith kill only when absolutely necessary. The Sith don't like waste. They let people live freely so long as they don't do anything to harm the Sith.

If the Jedi didn't go trying to defeat the Sith, I do not think that the Sith would worry about the Jedi.
The Sith are more about obtaining knowledge than going around aimlessly killing.

Edit: Holy crap I wrote a lot!


It nearly consumed Luke and he was the wisest jedi of them all. Not to mention it consumed Revan also one of the most powerful.

The brotherhood of darkness was corrupt and Bane was no different. Bane simply saw the brotherhood was going to lose so he quickened their fate. Bane was corrupted by the ancient holocrons, he sought more knowlage more power. His main goal through creating the rule of two was to end the jedi, out of hatred. He only killed when he had out of fear of being discovered. He was very corrupted through hate, and anger towards jedi, along with his lust for power.

You would know that jedi are never sent to assasinate, only to capture.
Explain the death star, if sith only kill when necessary why could that have come to be, an entire planet? Hardly sounds neccesary.

[Swizzle]

Ok,
#1, Yoda was the wisest Jedi.
#2, Yoda was a pimp.
#3, I've been saying that palpatine is a complete moron this whole time!
#4, Luke was a complete idiot leaving yoda's training before he was ready and it almost brought his demise.

And the Jedi may be sent to CAPTURE a Sith, but they know that isn't plausible and usually KILL them.

And Bane wasn't corrupted by the holocrons, he liked them so much because it was the only way
he could learn! He sought knowledge and power because all that was left was him and his apprentice
and so he couldn't just stay weak and get killed by the Jedi.

Darth Bane created the rule of two so that the sith wouldn't be morons again.

[Droote]

tl;dr[hr]


Then may I ask, which side do you take, as you seem to disregard both?


I'm not that much into Star Wars as you too appreantly are. I used to be though.
And I was joking about both the jedi and the sith. I must admit that I kinda cheer on the Jedis, but I admire the Siths as well. The Siths are evil though: they don't hesitate to kill, they want to control the universe, they hate everything etc.

[Konata Suzumiya]

Ok,
#1, Yoda was the wisest Jedi.
#2, Yoda was a pimp.
#3, I've been saying that palpatine is a complete moron this whole time!
#4, Luke was a complete idiot leaving yoda's training before he was ready and it almost brought his demise.

And the Jedi may be sent to CAPTURE a Sith, but they know that isn't plausible and usually KILL them.

And Bane wasn't corrupted by the holocrons, he liked them so much because it was the only way
he could learn! He sought knowledge and power because all that was left was him and his apprentice
and so he couldn't just stay weak and get killed by the Jedi.

Darth Bane created the rule of two so that the sith wouldn't be morons again.


1. If you can include EU I can include EU, Luke gets much more wise.
2. Luke could do things Yoda would never dream of
3. Palpatine destroyed the jedi, and was the most powerful site ever
4. Yes he did, his anger was corrupting him XD, but after vader was defeated he went back to Obi Wan and Yoda to complete his training.

Only if they resist, they don't go in with a team designed to assasinate, instead a team specializing in taking the target alive.

His seeking of power was him being corrupt, you forget he also had an un dying hate towards jedi,to fuel that he created the rule of two, with hope that one day someone would end the jedi.

His desire was never to create a new rule of sith, that were inteligent. His hope was that the jedi would die off someday, it took a genious :P (Palpatine) to execute these plans.

[Swizzle]

@Droote, The Sith aren't evil, they just have a different perspective.

It's time to whip out my favorite quote: "Right and wrong are not what separate us and our enemies. It's our different standpoints, our perspectives that separate us. Both sides blame one another. There's no good or bad side. Just two sides holding different views."

This is how I feel.

I don't know what EU is so to me Yodi is still the wisest.

If Palpatine is a genious, then why did he build a weapon that's so easy to destroy? 1 well placed shell and it's booom! gone!
I disagree when you saw palpatine was the strongest sith. I think there were much stronger ones even way before Darth Bane. Like the ones from the holocrons.

Also, if I recall correctly the first force users used the dark side and originated on Korriban. I also believe that the Sith were around over 100,000 years before there were any Jedi. I also believe that the Jedi came from the sith, so if there weren't any sith, there would be no jedi.

[Konata Suzumiya]

@Droote, The Sith aren't evil, they just have a different perspective.

It's time to whip out my favorite quote: "Right and wrong are not what separate us and our enemies. It's our different standpoints, our perspectives that separate us. Both sides blame one another. There's no good or bad side. Just two sides holding different views."

This is how I feel.

I don't know what EU is so to me Yodi is still the wisest.

If Palpatine is a genious, then why did he build a weapon that's so easy to destroy? 1 well placed shell and it's booom! gone!
I disagree when you saw palpatine was the strongest sith. I think there were much stronger ones even way before Darth Bane. Like the ones from the holocrons.

Also, if I recall correctly the first force users used the dark side and originated on Korriban. I also believe that the Sith were around over 100,000 years before there were any Jedi. I also believe that the Jedi came from the sith, so if there weren't any sith, there would be no jedi.


Once again real life logic doesn't work in fiction, the logic is completely different (there are no shades of gray its light and dark, good and evil)

EU = extended universe = books, comics, video games. Bane = EU, Revan = EU. Trust me Yoda is far from the wisest.

Palpatine didn't build the Death Star, he simply ordered it, the Death star called for that exhaust point for what reason I do not know. (the second Death Star did not have that, the only reason that was blown up was because it was still under construction.

There were arguably stronger then Bane, Revan in his prime was stronger than bane, Revan in his prime as a jedi was possibly stronger than palpatine, but not as a sith. (A lot of the holocrons came from Darth Revan)

Wrong wrong and wrong. Please refer to wookieepedia next time. The Sith originated about 7000 years before the battle of yavin, the jedi originating at around 25,000, the first users of the dark side originated around 24,500 but were defeated quickly.

As you can see the jedi existed around 17,500 years without the sith, ending the theory that they need each other. If there weren't any jedi then there wouldn't be any sith, not the other way around.

[Swizzle]

I did use wookiepedia!

"Before the founding of the Jedi Order and the discovery of the dark side, the Sith species evolved on Korriban. The Sith species began society around 130,000 BBY and about 30,000 years later, their culture and religion was formed. Around 28,000 BBY legendary Sith King Adas ruled his people and their Empire. Adas had ruled as a warlord for a time, however he was able to unite the people of Korriban and was pronounced the Sith'ari, or overlord. Adas' reign lasted for several centuries ending only after the invasion of Korriban by the Rakata of the Infinite Empire.

Initially friendly, the Rakata taught Adas how to create holocrons and lent their knowledge of space travel to the Sith. However, it soon became apparent that the Rakata intended to take the Sith people as slaves, and Adas launched a war to rid them from his world. He was successful, however the victory cost him his life. The Rakata left behind a Star Map on the planet, and possibly the origin for the Darth title.

The death of Adas threw Korriban into civil war, with many different Sith scrambling for power. The world was devastated from the years of conflict, and no new leader arose from the ashes. The Sith people moved their center of government and culture to the world of Ziost, and left Korriban to become a tomb world for their fallen leaders.
In 25,000 BBY, elsewhere in the galaxy, the Galactic Republic was forming. On the planet Tython, scholars, scientists, warriors, and religious figures met to discuss an anomalous
The Dark Jedi are exiled.
energy field present in the galaxy that would
The Dark Jedi are exiled.become known as the Force. In these discussions, several individuals advocated the use of
Bogan, what would become known as the dark side. The followers of the light rejected this idea and defeated the followers of Bogan in the Force Wars of Tython.

Following the conflict, the victors established the Jedi Order, a group of warrior-monks who followed the light side. Around 24,500 BBY, a Jedi named Xendor accepted the teachings of the dark side and left the order, along with many other students calling themselves the Legions of Lettow. The resulting conflict, known as the First Great Schism, ended with Xendor dead and the Legions of Lettow defeated."

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith

Origins section.

[Konata Suzumiya]

I did use wookiepedia!

"Before the founding of the Jedi Order and the discovery of the dark side, the Sith species evolved on Korriban. The Sith species began society around 130,000 BBY and about 30,000 years later, their culture and religion was formed. Around 28,000 BBY legendary Sith King Adas ruled his people and their Empire. Adas had ruled as a warlord for a time, however he was able to unite the people of Korriban and was pronounced the Sith'ari, or overlord. Adas' reign lasted for several centuries ending only after the invasion of Korriban by the Rakata of the Infinite Empire.

Initially friendly, the Rakata taught Adas how to create holocrons and lent their knowledge of space travel to the Sith. However, it soon became apparent that the Rakata intended to take the Sith people as slaves, and Adas launched a war to rid them from his world. He was successful, however the victory cost him his life. The Rakata left behind a Star Map on the planet, and possibly the origin for the Darth title.

The death of Adas threw Korriban into civil war, with many different Sith scrambling for power. The world was devastated from the years of conflict, and no new leader arose from the ashes. The Sith people moved their center of government and culture to the world of Ziost, and left Korriban to become a tomb world for their fallen leaders.
In 25,000 BBY, elsewhere in the galaxy, the Galactic Republic was forming. On the planet Tython, scholars, scientists, warriors, and religious figures met to discuss an anomalous
The Dark Jedi are exiled.
energy field present in the galaxy that would
The Dark Jedi are exiled.become known as the Force. In these discussions, several individuals advocated the use of
Bogan, what would become known as the dark side. The followers of the light rejected this idea and defeated the followers of Bogan in the Force Wars of Tython.

Following the conflict, the victors established the Jedi Order, a group of warrior-monks who followed the light side. Around 24,500 BBY, a Jedi named Xendor accepted the teachings of the dark side and left the order, along with many other students calling themselves the Legions of Lettow. The resulting conflict, known as the First Great Schism, ended with Xendor dead and the Legions of Lettow defeated."

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith

Origins section.


Sith SPECIES not the ideal, the sith were a simple intelligent species with little connection to the force. The Rakata were as far as anyone can tell the true original force adepts. Not much is known about them other than the infinite empire therefore they cannot be used in a force discussion other than reference. Ever wonder about the title sith lord? It was given to the most powerful jedi, wonder why it said sith? Because the sith were there slaves, but now it was an iconic name for themselves. Read up on history more next time. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/130,000_BBY


Also towards the comment that not all sith use hatred, and hunder for power...

Bam!
"The Sith are people who are very self-centered and selfish. There used to be many Sith, but because they hunger for power, they killed each other off, so now there are only two - a master and an apprentice. Sith rely on their passion to get things done. They use their raw emotion, their hatred, their anger, their bitterness - which is the dark side of the Force. The Force is what binds the galaxy together, and it has a good side and a bad side. The Sith learned how to manipulate both sides of the Force, and then they fell into the trap of being corrupted by the dark side. The Jedi Knights are like marshals in the Wild West. It's their job to make sure everyone is protected, to bring peace. They are the enemy of the Sith, because the Sith want to dominate the galaxy, to control everything, and for a thousand years they have had a plot against the Jedi. So, in this movie, it is time for them to seek revenge against the Jedi for perceived injustices and to carry out that plot."
?George Lucas on the Sith[src]

[Swizzle]

"Sith rely on their passion to get things done. They use their raw emotion..."

Wait, what?
What I've been saying the whole time?

Also, "The Force is what binds the galaxy together, and it has a good side and a bad side."
What?
the force binds the galaxy together with BOTH sides?
What else I've been saying the whole time?
Could it be that I actually know what I'm talking about?

If you ever want to be a good debator, use parts of quotes that I can't use to argue my point.

"The Sith learned how to manipulate both sides of the Force"
That's pretty cool. I never knew about that.

[Konata Suzumiya]

Raw emotion = hate, anger, bitterness.

Look what it says, the force binds the galaxy together, but it also has a good and bad side, not both bind it together.

They learned how to manipulate both sides, then they fell into the corruption (sounds like what I said). Meaning they are blinded by their hatred and start killing eachother like a roomfull of starving cannibals.

I use the entire quote so other parts of the quote can't be used against me, that way I can also refer to it whenever I like instead of just the parts I mention.

[Swizzle]

"Look what it says, the force binds the galaxy together, but it also has a good and bad side, not both bind it together."

It doesn't say that anywhere. When you debate, you should stick to the facts (though I'm sure I'm at fault for not doing that as well.) It says nowhere that not both bind it together.
I believe without the Dark Side, the galaxy would fall into chaos.

Raw emotion isn't necessarily hate and anger and bitterness. It could be other emotion as well.
"They use their raw emotion, their hatred, their anger, their bitterness" It doesn't say they use their raw emotion, WHICH IS their hatred, anger and bitterness. Rather, it keeps them seperate implying that raw emotion is different from those.

[Konata Suzumiya]

The force is one thing it isn't two, the light side of the force is often refered to as just "the force", the dark side is a corrupt manipulation of the force, not its pure self. I don't see how without the dark side it would fall into chaos, it lasted just fine for 17,500 years.

This is impossible to determine, it all depends on how he said it (the tone). I would like to think he paused to explain what the raw emotion was (those three), to explain how the sith are evil.[hr]
Also I do agree with you on one point, we are both stretching the truth to an extent. But saying that you should never stretch the truth is never going to happen, everyone has morals and opinions, those get in the way and are still used very often.

[Swizzle]

If the Force is one thing, then if the Dark side somehow dissapeared, there would only be half the Force.
"the dark side is a corrupt manipulation of the force, not its pure self."
How does the Dark side exist if it is not part of the Force, and if there is only one force?
That statement makes no sense at all.

"I would like to think he paused to explain what the raw emotion was"
You would like to think that, but there is no proof. Therefore that statement is discounted.

"I don't see how without the dark side it would fall into chaos, it lasted just fine for 17,500 years."
The Dark Side still existed during that time, people just didn't utilize it.

Edit: Also, we've been debating for about 5 pages now. Aren't you getting tired of it at all? In the end, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[Konata Suzumiya]

If the Force is one thing, then if the Dark side somehow dissapeared, there would only be half the Force.
"the dark side is a corrupt manipulation of the force, not its pure self."
How does the Dark side exist if it is not part of the Force, and if there is only one force?
That statement makes no sense at all.

"I would like to think he paused to explain what the raw emotion was"
You would like to think that, but there is no proof. Therefore that statement is discounted.

"I don't see how without the dark side it would fall into chaos, it lasted just fine for 17,500 years."
The Dark Side still existed during that time, people just didn't utilize it.

Edit: Also, we've been debating for about 5 pages now. Aren't you getting tired of it at all? In the end, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.


As I said the dark side is manipulating the force through emotions such as hatred, using it to kill and torture, the force in its purest of forms cannot do this.

Good as I said earlier I wished not to include the earlier statement said by George because there presentation means everything.

Yes it always exists etc. the point is being a manipulation of the force it was dormant and not active, manipulation doesn't corrupt, lives aren't tortured, the galaxy lives in peace etc.

Ahh but isn't debating fun :) Like I said earlier Everyone has opinions, these opinions highly affect the debate at hand. But if you wish to end the debate I pose a question that would allow us both to theoretically "win". Is one of your main reasons for being against the light, the arrogance of the council?

[Swizzle]

Yes, in my mind he council thinks they are above the law and I believe that nobody should be above the law, and that's why I love it when the Sith destroy that. Also, I love seeing plans being made and being carried out flawlessly. The more intricate the plan, the more I enjoy watching it. This is why Darth Bane: Path of Destruction is my favorite book. I love genious like that and that is why I respect the dark so much.
Also, the Jedi are just plain stupid in episodes 1-3. I understand that it's because they thought the Sith were extinct, but I still believe they should have figured out the plan a lot earlier than they did.
In my mind it's all a game of chess.
The players make their moves until one of them is finally in checkmate. That's how I view a lot of things. That's the reason I love Deathnote and Code Geass. Both of those have some pretty awesome plans that are carried out. Especially Deathnote. Two geniouses battling it out intellectually forming plans as they go and some of which are absolutely stunning.

Also, it isn't that I'm against the light, I respect it, but I respect the Dark more because I believe they have come up with much more interesting things than the light. In the end I really don't care who's right and who's wrong. I believe that is all a matter of perspective and opinion. What I really care about is learning all the different planning and seeing how it's all carried out and everything like that.

If you can understand why I like the Dark Side so much, than I believe that this debate is over.
If not, then I have no problem continuing it =)

Edit: 300th post! xD

Edit Edit: I also want to know why you like the Light so much

[Konata Suzumiya]

I like the light because it points that everything is worth assisting. The jedi are the sworn protecters of the repbulic. I always have seen as the sith wishing to destroy the republic and its democracy. The light attempts to avoid fighting, it takes much patiance, and practice to use, but when perfected one is incredible. I am beyond the thought of Potentium, because I have learned that is only a means to the dark side itself. Though sith say their means are just their journey is reckless, stupid, and evil.

I suspected that was what you had against the jedi so I have the perfect Ideal for you. :)
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Jedi
Gray jedi are light side jedi that work outside the council. They follow the light, and are known as jedi but the high council is of no means to them. You may remember Qui-gon, a very famous Gray jedi.

[Swizzle]

I prefer confronting problems directly rather than avoiding them and waiting. That's another reason I like the Sith.

And I have nothing against Gray Jedi, lone wolves are always cool. Qui-gon Jin was a pimp also xD
To bad the Sith were too ninja-like for him to handle.

And you know what I never understood?
At the end of Episode 3, when Yoda is talking to Obi-Wan he said that Qui-Gon was the one who learned how to defeat death so how come at the end of episode 6 when it shows obiwan and yoda, quigon isn't there?
That's something that's always bothered me.

Also, another reason I like the Sith is that they are not really bound by rules. Freedom like that seems cool to me. It is also because of that that they are able to make their intricate plans.

[Konata Suzumiya]

Ahh thats why the gray jedi would be perfect for you. They do listen to the council only take suggestions. The Gray jedi are bound by no rules other than the jedi code, just as the sith are bound by their own code.

That is because Qui-gon moved on after teaching Yoda and Obiwan about the living force.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_ghost

[Swizzle]

So if there are Gray Jedi, are there Gray Sith?

And also, thanks for that. I was confused by that.
I still think Qui-Gon should've maintained his body though.

[Konata Suzumiya]

No because when there is a sith council you follow the rules or you die.

Well let me sum it up
1. Gray jedi are light sided
2. They do not always follow the council
3. Often they are considered part of the order
4. They follow the code.

[Swizzle]

Just so you know, I'm always going to like Sith more than Jedi unless something drastic happens. Also, I'm always going to like Gray Jedi better than other Jedi because they understand the stupidity of the council and have slightly more freedom.

I just love the Sith code.
Especially that first line.
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion."
and this line as well,
"Through victory, my chains are broken."

Both those lines speak to me.

Also, I'm one of those people who think that "bad guys" should win sometimes instead of being so predictable. And the Sith come the closest I've ever seen.

[Konata Suzumiya]

There is no emotion there is peace
There is no ignorance there is knowlage
There is no death, there is only the force

favorite 3 lines.
Well they won... for like 20 years. I just love the heroist feel of the jedi, instead of rushing into battle they think of the backlash it might cause.

[Swizzle]

Hehe,
If the Jedi had their way then the Star Wars movies would be really boring lol xD

And I get enough of a heroist feel from every other movie I see and every other book I read so I don't care for the Jedi that much. I love action!

[Konata Suzumiya]

Hehe,
If the Jedi had their way then the Star Wars movies would be really boring lol xD

And I get enough of a heroist feel from every other movie I see and every other book I read so I don't care for the Jedi that much. I love action!


Ahh but the Gray jedi are just that, an overflow of action. Danger seemed to follow qui-gon wherever he went, if they are bored they just go somewhere else.

[Swizzle]

Alright, well I'm going to bed now.

It's been fun ^.^